proper definition of manhaj

[ibn abi 'Abdirrahman]

I purposely put the question in a vague manner as to not attract too many people to it.

I read a question in one forum and frankly speaking I really don't know what the answer to that question is . Hopefully someone here has the answers and by the name of Allah I ask that the moderators not delete this thread or lock it.

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assalamu alaikum

what is meant by manhaj? i mean i've read about people being salafi in aqeedah but not manhaj......what is that supposed to mean? then i hear people's aqeedah being salafi but their fiqh is not salafi......what is that supposed to mean? is 'salafi fiqh' synonymous with learning fiqh without a madhhab? cuz that seems to be an impossibility to me..

i've read this whole manhaj thing on supers####i sites, read it here in the *#####*** thread...

i mean whats the problem if someone has the correct aqeedah he works with an organization that basically wants good for the Muslims of that land? what if that organization is isna, mas or whatever.... what is this particular brother/sister who has the correct aqeedah doing that is so wrong? if a doctor has correct aqeedah is he only permitted to treat salafis?

so please explain to me what all this manhaj talk is about....

[disclaimer: i am not suggesting that we unite upon batil like sufism, asharism or whatever. But if the goal is to simply serve the Muslim community the 'awwam who does not need to get into the details of aqaid, who only want to increase their iman and do good deeds; why is it such a problem for a person with salafi aqeedah to benefit these people and to work with organizations who are pretty much trying to do that?]

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[Haitham Hamdan]

Manhaj refers to the methodology of receiving, analyzing and applying knowledge.

So, if you go by the correct understanding of the Quran and Sunnah then you are on the correct Manhaj.

The correct understanding of the Quran and Sunnah is that of the righteous predecessors.

This has always been the meaning of the term Manhaj (Manhaj Al-Talaqqee). As you can see, it does not make sense to say that someone has a correct ‘Aqeedah but a false Manhaj!

If his Manhaj were false, how did he arrive at the Aqeedah of the Salaf based on Quran and Sunnah!

Also, for someone to intentionally be on the correct Manhaj in Aqeedah but not in Fiqh is very unlikely. Why would someone follow the salaf in Aqeedah, but not Fiqh!

This distinction between 'Aqeedah on one side, and other Islamic sciences on the other side, is a Bid'ah adopted by the "super salafis"!

A correct Manhaj means following the way of the salaf in ‘Aqeedah, hadeeth, fiqh, tafseer … etc.

The problem with working with ISNA … etc, is that it is going to be very difficult to prohibit evil and enjoin good. Other than that, we were ordered by Allah SWT to cooperate in Taqwaa.

Wallahu A’lam.

[ibn abi 'Abdirrahman]

جزاك الله عنا خيرا

[al-boriqee]

yes you are right shaykh haitham

there a small fringe group who call them sleves salafis who stress importance of manhaj, and even I was duped into their manhaji manhaj :D

barakallahu freek ya shaykh haitham

that was fantastic

asalamu alaikum

[ibn abi 'Abdirrahman]

What can be done to eradicate super salafism before further damage is done by their foolishness?

[Haitham Hamdan]

What can be done to eradicate super salafism before further damage is done by their foolishness?
1) By seeking knowledge. Because the basis for super salafism is ignorance.

2) By adhering to the way of the Salaf. Super salafis do not care about the way of the Salaf, despite the fact they claim they do.

3) By giving them advice kindly. If this does not work then by boycotting them, and warning people from them.

Wallahu A'lam.

[al-boriqee]

What can be done to eradicate super salafism before further damage is done by their foolishness?

well, they are virtually destroyed now. Even the "agenda" ridden conferences that they use to have which wasn othing but warning individuals and knowing who is a hizbee and stuff like that, all of a sudden changed to classes on shurooh of Ibn Abdul-Wahhab's works and even linking with al-baseerah.org lectures.

so the fitnah that they themselves furnished has died down hopefully having a horrible death.

now, the fitnah is down to a certain selection of brothers who are themselves quelled into silence for fear of being thrown off the dawah.

just as haitham has said, knowledge is the key to its death and the lack of it being born.

asalamu alaikum

[salafee_4400]

yes you are right shaykh haitham

there a small fringe group who call them sleves salafis who stress importance of manhaj, and even I was duped into their manhaji manhaj :D

barakallahu freek ya shaykh haitham

that was fantastic

asalamu alaikum

assalam alaikum

akhee, al boriqee, can you tell us more about this fringe group?
yanee what are their characteristics and how do you go about recognising one

also ive come across another term for the first time - 'super salafees'
perhaps someone can elaborate inshallaah

Jazakallaah Khayr

[Um Abdullah M.]

he means websites like Spubs and salafitalk

they are still our Muslim brothers and sisters, but we don't agree with the way they make tabdee' of almost everyone except a few shaikhs.
We believe they are extreme in that.

[salafee_4400]

assalam alaikum wa rahmatullaah

jazakallah khayr for your response

From what i understand it is not actually spubs that make tabdee it is the major scholars, and spubs just convey to us what the ulema have said about fulan and fulan

if you are claiming that spubs make tabdee of certain individuals it is upon you to being proof

[ibn abi 'Abdirrahman]

wa'alaikumussalam warahmatullah

I think the problem with them is busying too much of their time on Qiil and Qaal.

All they know is to do tajriih of other people when in fact it might only be nothing other than Kalaam Al Aqraan. Even Ibn Ma'een made tajriih on Ash Shaafi'iyy but does that need to be taken seriously ?

If you notice on those websites, there are so many fiqhi questions left unanswered for years but they always have the time to call so many MAsyaaikh non Salafis, etc.

[Um Abdullah M.]

assalam alaikum wa rahmatullaah

jazakallah khayr for your response

From what i understand it is not actually spubs that make tabdee it is the major scholars, and spubs just convey to us what the ulema have said about fulan and fulan

if you are claiming that spubs make tabdee of certain individuals it is upon you to being proof

wa alaykum assalam wa rahmatullah

I am not sure about Spubs
but in salafitalk I see members there attacking shaikhs like Yasir al Qadhi, zarabozo and others, did major scholars speak about them and consider them a non Salafi?

also in regards to Sayed Qutub rahimahu Allah , I don't necessarly like his teachings or agree with it, but still say "rahimahu Allah' when mentioning his name, because he is Muslim (not that you call him a kafir) and wasn't a scholar who had good knowledge so no surprise he slipped on many times, but I dont' call every person who praises him for his fighting against the government or praises his books fi dhilal al Quran as a "Qutubi" and put him on the black list.

I mean Imam Ibn Hajar and nawawi - rahimahuma Allah- had some wrong beliefs, but we didn't put them on black list, and we respect them, and benefit from the good they had, which is more than the wrong.

[salafee_4400]

assalam alaikum wa rahmatullaah

ukhtee, before i can reply to your last post i must ask you- do you deny the obligation of warning against the people of desires and innovations?

[Um Abdullah M.]

akhi, and who is to judge if the person is a person of desires or not?

akhi, Imam An Nawawi rahimahu Allah made ta'wil to sifat, that is not the aqeedah of the salaf, so should we be going around saying that he was an innovator and stop taking knowledge from him?
what about al Hafidh Ibn Hajar? al Bayhaqi? rahimahum Allah

Differentiate between a person who made a mistake out of ijtihad, while he was trying to follow the haq, and between someone who follows his desires and the shaytan.

no human, scholar or non scholar is free from error, even shaikhs that you follow.

There are people out there who are far worse, people who call to shirk, and to innovations saying that there is such a thing as a good bid'ah, those should be attacked and Muslims should be warned not to take from them, those should be exposed and refuted.
But your Muslim brothers in aqeedah like shaikh Yasir Qadhi and others, they fight ahl bid'ah like ash'aris and sufis, even if they were wrong in some issue, doesn't mean that you have the right to eat their flesh.
you should unite with them to fight the callers to shirk and the so called "good" innovations, they are all over the internet spreading their poison, and many laymen who don't have knowledge in aqeedah get traped by them.

if you believe that every Muslim who commited an innovation becomes an innovator and a person of desire, then you should not take anything from the books of Imam Nawawi, Ibn Hajar, al Bayhaqi, as Suyuti, al Qurtubi, and many others whom our scholars take lot of their knowledge from, while knowning that they had some mistakes in aqeedah.

Busy yourself with spreading the correct aqeedah and islamic knowledge, than spreaking about individuals who are from ahl assunnah but made some mistakes by ijtihad.

[Um Abdullah M.]

assalam alaikum wa rahmatullaah

ukhtee, before i can reply to your last post i must ask you- do you deny the obligation of warning against the people of desires and innovations?

wa alaykum assalam

I warn against their innovation if they are from ahl assunnah but made a mistake, not out of desire, but out of ijtihad and wanting to follow the truth like Ibn Hajar al Asqalani and Imam Nawawi rahimahuma Allah, but not warn about their person (attacking it), as their good greatly outweighs their mistakes.

same goes with Yasir al Qadhi and Zarabozo hafidhahum Allah and others.

But if the person is a innovator who follows his desires and shaytan like Qabbani and G. Haddad, then I would warn about them and their innovations, for they spread shirki beliefs and practices.