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al bakistani
08-21-2009, 06:10 AM
I read somewhere on the Internet that Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said that leaving fard salah is the greatest sin after shirk. Even greater than murder. and there is consensus on this issue. Did ibnul Qayyim said this ? and is this correct ?

I am not talking about whether whether leaving fard salah is kufr or not ?

Sadiq3
08-21-2009, 09:51 AM
Narrated 'Abdullah: I asked the Prophet, "What is the greatest sin in the Sight of Allah?" He said, "That you set up a rival unto Allah though He Alone created you." I said, "That is indeed a great sin." Then asked, "What is next?" He said, "To kill your son lest he should share your food with you." I asked, "What is next?" He said, "To commit illegal sexual intercourse with the wife of your neighbor." Sahih Bukhari Book #60, Hadith #4

strive4jannah
08-21-2009, 10:07 AM
Narrated 'Abdullah: I asked the Prophet, "What is the greatest sin in the Sight of Allah?" He said, "That you set up a rival unto Allah though He Alone created you." I said, "That is indeed a great sin." Then asked, "What is next?" He said, "To kill your son lest he should share your food with you." I asked, "What is next?" He said, "To commit illegal sexual intercourse with the wife of your neighbor." Sahih Bukhari Book #60, Hadith #4


This Hadeeth posted by you doesn't explicitly answer the original question posted as the part
"What is the greatest sin in the Sight of Allah?" He said, "That you set up a rival unto Allah though He Alone created you."can be reconciled with the following:
(according to the scholarly opinion of it being kufr to completely abandon the Salaah)

a, “Between a man and shirk and kufr there stands his neglect of the prayer.”
(Narrated by Muslim in Kitaab al-Eemaan from Jaabir ibn ‘Abd-Allaah from the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him)).


b, It was narrated that Buraydah ibn al-Husayb (may Allaah be pleased with him) said: “I heard the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) say: ‘The covenant that distinguishes between us and them is the prayer, and whoever neglects it has disbelieved (become a kaafir).’”
(It was narrated by Ahmad, Abu Dawood, al-Tirmidhi, al-Nisaa’i and Ibn Maajah).

[What is meant here by kufr or disbelief is the kind of kufr which puts a person beyond the pale of Islam, because the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) made prayer the dividing line between the believers and the disbelievers. It is known that the community of kufr is not the same as the community of Islam, so whoever does not fulfil this covenant must be one of the kaafireen (disbelievers).]

strive4jannah
08-21-2009, 10:12 AM
I read somewhere on the Internet that Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said that leaving fard salah is the greatest sin after shirk. Even greater than murder. and there is consensus on this issue. Did ibnul Qayyim said this ? and is this correct ?

I am not talking about whether whether leaving fard salah is kufr or not ?


"Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said that leaving fard salah is the greatest sin after shirk. Even greater than murder. and there is consensus on this issue."


Q1. Is Ibn Qayyim (r) just referring to abandoning one single Salaah or abandoning it completely altogether ?


Q2. And is the consensus on :

a, abandoning one single Salaah being worse than murder or
b, abandoning the Salaah completely altogether worse than murder ?

strive4jannah
08-22-2009, 03:45 AM
I hope someone who understands Arabic can check the answers to the question posted in this thread from Ibn Qayyim's book, which can be downloaded from here:

الصلاة وحكم تاركها
http://www.islamport.com/isp_eBooks/qym/

al bakistani
08-23-2009, 03:53 PM
Brother Ayman bin Khaled please reply. When we say this people take leaving salah more seriously. And a brother objected with the same hadeeth Sadiq3 posted above.

Ayman bin khaled
08-23-2009, 08:04 PM
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

I could not locate where Ibn al-Qaiym said that leaving Salaat is worse than Shirk!! However, he said that abandoning it is worse than killing and stealing and etc. This is an obvious clear correct statement since leaving the Salaat has been described as Kufr while other mentioned acts are called as major sins. This is agreed on.

- The dispute is esatblished whether whoever leavs Salaat in total is Kafir or not. Some said he is Kafir while others said he is Kafir but not to the extent to leave Islam (kufr below kufr).

- Ibn al-qaiem is with the view that is if clear Kufr as he relied on many texts in his book.

Wallahu A'lam

strive4jannah
08-24-2009, 12:24 AM
بسم الله الرحمن الرحيم

I could not locate where Ibn al-Qaiym said that leaving Salaat is worse than Shirk!!

Wallahu A'lam

Ustadh Ayman no one in their questions inquired regarding "leaving Salaat being worse than Shirk!!"

The questioner rather said: I read somewhere on the Internet that Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said that leaving fard salah is the greatest sin after shirk.

Perhaps, you may have read hurriedly.


And what about my questions in post# 4 ?

Ayman bin khaled
08-24-2009, 06:51 AM
Ustadh Ayman no one in their questions inquired regarding "leaving Salaat being worse than Shirk!!"

The questioner rather said: I read somewhere on the Internet that Ibn al-Qayyim rahimahullah said that leaving fard salah is the greatest sin after shirk.

Same. I could not locate it.

Anyhow, he consider leaving Salaat as Kufr.
And what about my questions in post# 4 ?

1. He was referring to leaving Salat in total or insist on leaving it so that one be Kafir.

2. a. Allahu A'lam
2. b. should be since it means one became a Kafir while murder does not nulify ones' Islam.

Wallahu A'lam

2.

strive4jannah
08-24-2009, 11:30 AM
In his book concerning Ijmaa, has Ibn Mundhir (r) narrated any Ijmaa of the ulema on Leaving Salaah Being Worse Than Murder as Ibn Qayyim [r] claims ?

al bakistani
08-25-2009, 03:09 PM
However, he said that abandoning it is worse than killing and stealing and etc. This is an obvious clear correct statement since leaving the Salaat has been described as Kufr while other mentioned acts are called as major sins. This is agreed on.

Assalam-o-'alaykum

Dear beloved brother, could you please find the arabic for this statement of ibnul Qayyim and translate that for me.

Abu Dujanah AlAthary
08-25-2009, 03:23 PM
Assalam-o-'alaykum

Dear beloved brother, could you please find the arabic for this statement of ibnul Qayyim and translate that for me.

Assalamu Alaikum,

I hope this helps.

لا يختلف المسلمون أن ترك الصلاة المفروضة عمداً من أعظم الذنوب وأكبر الكبائر، وأن إثمه عند الله أعظم من إثم قتل النفس وأخذ الأموال ومن إثم الزنا والسرقة وشرب الخمر، وأنه متعرض لعقوبة الله وسخطه وخزيه في الدنيا والآخرة.

"There is no disagreement amongst the Muslims that leaving the mandatory prayers purposely is one of the biggest sins, and that the one who does this has commited a sin that is larger to Allah than the one who killed a soul, stole money,committed zina,theft, and drank alcohol ... and that he is exposed to the punishment of Allah, his wrath and his anger in the Dunya and Akhirah"

al bakistani
08-25-2009, 03:30 PM
Assalamu Alaikum,

I hope this helps.

لا يختلف المسلمون أن ترك الصلاة المفروضة عمداً من أعظم الذنوب وأكبر الكبائر، وأن إثمه عند الله أعظم من إثم قتل النفس وأخذ الأموال ومن إثم الزنا والسرقة وشرب الخمر، وأنه متعرض لعقوبة الله وسخطه وخزيه في الدنيا والآخرة.

"There is no disagreement amongst the Muslims that leaving the mandatory prayers purposely is one of the biggest sins, and that the one who does this has commited a sin that is larger to Allah than the one who killed a soul, stole money,committed zina,theft, and drank alcohol ... and that he is exposed to the punishment of Allah, his wrath and his anger in the Dunya and Akhirah"

walaikum assalam

JazakAllah. You have been very helpful brother. is this from the same book nasir provided above in post # 5.

Abu Dujanah AlAthary
08-25-2009, 03:52 PM
JazakAllahu Khairan. Yes, it is the same book.

Here is the link of the book open on the page where I got the text from.

http://arabic.islamicweb.com/books/taimiya.asp?book=99&ID=3

Muhammad Salman
08-27-2009, 11:36 AM
- The dispute is esatblished whether whoever leavs Salaat in total is Kafir or not. Some said he is Kafir while others said he is Kafir but not to the extent to leave Islam (kufr below kufr).as-salamu 'alayka ustad

I have couple of questions:

1 - Are there any ulama who said that abandoning the salah completely is not any kind of kufr? Because I was under the impression that the difference is kufr vs major sin. OR is that difference over abandoning completely vs missing few?

2 - I also read somewhere (I believe it was by brother Abu Bakr) that the ulama differed whether abandoning the salah completely constitutes as kufr (al-akbar) or even if someone misses few of them. For example the statement of Imam Ahmad (rahimahullah) in which he said that whoever does not offer a salah until its time has passed is a kafir (something like this). Is my observation correct?

3 - Can you please kindly post a quicky summary of different opinions regarding this issue? And also tell me which one seems to be more correct if you may?

Jazak Allah khayran