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Bassam Zawadi Vs. Thabiti Anyabwile: How Can We Find Forgiveness From A Holy God

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  • Bassam Zawadi Vs. Thabiti Anyabwile: How Can We Find Forgiveness From A Holy God

    On March 6, 2011 I participated in a dialogue with Pastor Thabiti Anyabwile on the topic "How Can We Find Forgiveness From A Holy God?". Check out the video over here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKH6tm_Gaz8

    Before seeing the debate you might want to check out the trailers:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jrABW...eature=related
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03k3LfDp4iQ


    I am grateful to Dr. Ken Pulliam, for his research helped me articulate some of my arguments more effectively.
    www.call-to-monotheism.com

  • #2
    .

    pulliam died last year.
    the meanings of homographs [words spelled and pronounced alike that have different meanings] are almost always easily determined by the contexts in which they are used

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    • #3
      Yes it's a real shame, I'm sure if presented with the Islamic view of salvation he would have greatly appreciated it and possibly accepted Islam. His research on the atonement is the best I have ever come across. Many wish he didn't die before authoring his book on the subject, however his website has a wealth of information on the subject.
      www.call-to-monotheism.com

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      • #4
        Assalaamu 'alaikum,

        I watched it...decent mashaAllah. It seemed as though Thabiti, when his turn came, was kind of saying "fluff" or like "preaching" vs. academically breaking down things as you were, which a person can easily see through if has the capability.

        I do admire that it was civil and not ridiculous. You do go kind of hard though bro at times, where it may be taken as disrespect, and thus turn others away...but that's completely just my opinion. (trying to be "fair and balanced" like Fox News jk).

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        • #5
          Excellent work akhi. (smile)

          Allah yefta7 3alik. You should have told me about it, I would have attended it it is just two hours drive to there.
          Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

          Why Posts Are Deleted?
          [Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

          If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.

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          • #6
            baarak Allah feek akhi Ayman. I thought you live in Jordan. Where are you based now?
            www.call-to-monotheism.com

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bassam Zawadi View Post
              baarak Allah feek akhi Ayman. I thought you live in Jordan. Where are you based now?
              Check your pm
              Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

              Why Posts Are Deleted?
              [Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

              If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.

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              • #8
                Assalamualaykum

                Had I known about it , I would attended it . Next time when such events are coming pls do let us know in advance

                Jazakallahu khairan

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                • #9
                  Salam

                  Salam brother bassam

                  Just watched all parts and I enjoy your syle of presentation. Just wanna ask why you didnt ask the question

                  If the only requirement for salvation and to achive closeness to this ever pure god is belife in christ how come your nature doesnt change when you become a christian. In other words god is so pure he can not assosiate with impure beings and due to the everlasting nature of sin we could not be close to god but after belife in christianity that nature remains therefore god would still not be approacable as he would still be pure and we would still be sinners.


                  I hope you understand my question. If ever you get an answer pls let us know.

                  Again good job and keep up the good work

                  Salam

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                  • #10
                    I also have a question.

                    I was confused, as well as Thabiti haha, about when you were mentioning the intrinsic and extrinsic qualities. What does that mean? and what was the relevance in laymen terms? I was trying to follow, but didn't get it...

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                    • #11
                      Salam brother bassam
                      wa alaykum Assalam

                      Just wanna ask why you didnt ask the question

                      If the only requirement for salvation and to achive closeness to this ever pure god is belife in christ how come your nature doesnt change when you become a christian. In other words god is so pure he can not assosiate with impure beings and due to the everlasting nature of sin we could not be close to god but after belife in christianity that nature remains therefore god would still not be approacable as he would still be pure and we would still be sinners.
                      The Christian would reply back saying that it's not needed his nature becomes pure. It would surely become better, but not pure.

                      What matters is that his record is "pure", since Jesus supposedly wiped their slate clean on the cross.
                      www.call-to-monotheism.com

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                      • #12
                        Salam

                        So if I became christian my original sin would be forgiven but my nature to sin would remain. So in the case of the guy stealing the apples it would be the same. I would still steal the apples even though I dont eat apples or want apples. Since he used this analoghy to show that we have an inherent nature to sin from the original sin I must therefore still have that nature even if I dont have the burden.

                        Also what happens to the remaining other sins..... Those comited against god indirectly so those against each other. If they are also forgiven there is a inconsistancy in gods justice.

                        If im right in the islamic forgiveness process acts comitted against ppl will be delt with in person and expiation will be needed unless forgiveness is granted in this life.

                        Salam

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                        • #13
                          So if I became christian my original sin would be forgiven but my nature to sin would remain.
                          Yes, but they will argue that your sinning shouldn't be consistent and major. You have to bear "good fruits" after "accepting the Holy Spirit".

                          Also what happens to the remaining other sins..... Those comited against god indirectly so those against each other. If they are also forgiven there is a inconsistancy in gods justice.
                          Yeah I know.
                          www.call-to-monotheism.com

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                          • #14
                            .

                            If the only requirement for salvation and to achive closeness to this ever pure god is belife in christ how come your nature doesnt change when you become a christian. In other words god is so pure he can not assosiate with impure beings and due to the everlasting nature of sin we could not be close to god but after belife in christianity that nature remains therefore god would still not be approacable as he would still be pure and we would still be sinners.
                            when a soldier gives his life to save some one he literally saves flesh and blood. in christianity jesus' murder on the cross did not save flesh or blood and neither did it kill sin.
                            god in christianity is appeasing himself by USING his DEEDS which he had done to himself through roman hands. your're free because god was appeased/pleased by his own deed.

                            another problem jesus' 'sacrifice' raises is,

                            The death of the flesh has nothing to offer the world of the spirit.

                            how does the death of the flesh alter the world of the spirit? And how does the death of the flesh effect the world of the flesh? This is the part of the passion narrative which makes absolutely no sense. We return back to the idea of the sacrificial goat; if you sacrifice a goat to God, as stated in Leviticus 16, what does that death accomplish? How is the decay of matter effecting the outside world? How is that same decaying matter interacting with the world of the spirit? What influence can that possibly have and, more importantly, why would you want that action–the decay of matter–to be your link to something supremely amazing?

                            they say that the pharisee's were the manipulators of the law, but what about the suicide of the man god?

                            quote:
                            Hence, the sinner is pardoned, released from all liability to penal suffering, when Christ became his substitute, but is left in his criminal and polluted state; morally corrupt, but not liable to-the divinely ordained consequence of his corruption! At enmity against God, yet not liable to the consequences of that state of enmity. Such a state of things, it is self-evident, is impossible in the sphere of either physical or moral law. It would be possible only in the sphere of human law, and possible here only because of the inherent weakness of human law. Thus, a man commits a malicious murder, is indicted and tried by the proper court; but, by the bribery or death of witnesses, or by corrupting the court, he procures a verdict of acquittal, and is set free. This verdict operates as a barrier against subsequent prosecution and punishment. This is exactly the state in which substitutionary satisfaction puts all for whom Christ died. His death absolutely delivers from "reatus poena," but leaves them in the meshes of "reatus culpae," from which, however, they are at some indefinite time to be wholly or in part relieved .
                            the meanings of homographs [words spelled and pronounced alike that have different meanings] are almost always easily determined by the contexts in which they are used

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