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Shaykh bin Baaz on the Shape of the Earth

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  • Shaykh bin Baaz on the Shape of the Earth

    Assalamu Alaykum

    Alot of lies have been spread that Shaykh bin Baaz said that the earth is flat. However, this is a misunderstanding of what he said.

    Taken from http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...main_cat_id=31...

    Question: Al-Salam-`alaykum.

    I read a fatw purportedly by the Sheikh Ibn Bz (may Allah forgive him) wherein he said: "The Earth is flat. Whoever claims it is round is an atheist deserving of punishment." Sheikh Ibn Bz was one of the greatest scholars of today. However, I do not understand this fatw. Please explain it to me.

    Answered by the Scientific Research Committee - IslamToday.net

    All praise is due to Allah, and may peace be upon His Messenger.

    Here is Sheikh Ibn Bzs fatw on the matter:
    According to the people of knowledge the Earth is round. Indeed, Ibn Hazm and other scholars have declared that there is consensus on this matter among the people of knowledge This means that all of the surface of the Earth is connected together so that the form of the planet is like a sphere. Nevertheless, Allah has spread out the Earth's surface in relation to us, and He has placed upon it firm mountains, the seas, and life as a mercy for us. For this reason, Allah said: "And (do they not look) at the Earth, how it was spread out flat (sutihat)." [Srah al-Ghshiyah:20] Therefore, the Earth has been made flat for us in regards to our relationship to it to facilitate our lives upon it and our comfort. The fact that it is round does not prevent that its surface has been made flat for us. This is because something that is round and very large, then its surface will become very vast or broad, having a flat appearance to those who are upon it."
    This is the fatw of Sheikh Ibn Bz about the shape of the Earth. So do not listen to those who lie against him and try to make it seem as though he was some "old fool" who did not even know that the Earth is round. Such people are liars and slanderers. At best, they are rumor mongers who narrate whatever they hear without verification the accuracy of what they say. As the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "It is sufficient to consider a man a liar when he narrates everything that he hears." [Sahh Muslim]
    www.call-to-monotheism.com

  • #2
    Among those who said that the roundness of eath was a matter of agreemnt of scholars was: ibn Taymiyyah RA in the third volume of the Fatawa.

    Wallahu A'lam.
    Always remember without total fluency in the Arabic language, you can only attain basic Islamic knowledge ... but basic knowledge is the path to advanced knowledge
    haitham_hamdan@hotmail.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Yes brother Haitham. For more on that point see http://www.islamtoday.net/english/sh...main_cat_id=31
      www.call-to-monotheism.com

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      • #4
        For more on Sheikh Ibn Baz stance from Arabic sources please read:
        http://eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?t=4833

        And concesus of Muslim scholars on roundedness of earth with their exact quotations from Arabic sources:
        http://eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1158

        And Allah knows best.
        In Uhud, when the polytheists attacked the Prophet (saws), he asked, "Who will sell his life to us?" Ziyad ibn al-Sakan with five of al-Ansar got up. They kept on fighting to defend the Prophet (saws) and all were killed one after the other.....
        Abu Dujanah shielded the Prophet (saws) with his body. Arrows were hurled at his back as he leaned over him, until many struck him. [Sirat Ibn Hisham]

        May you be ransomed with my father and my mother and my whole life, O Messenger of Allah!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Moumen View Post
          And concesus of Muslim scholars on roundedness of earth with their exact quotations from Arabic sources:
          http://eltwhed.com/vb/showthread.php?t=1158
          Akhi, can you translate the parts that say that the concensus of scholars agreed on the roundedness of earth?

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by AlGhuraba View Post
            Akhi, can you translate the parts that say that the concensus of scholars agreed on the roundedness of earth?
            This is not a translation of the whole post in the link but the consensus part is there

            Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah (rahimahullh) writes:

            All Muslims deem that the heavens are round. Several scholars have declared consensus regarding it. One of them is Abl-Husayn Ahmad bin Jafar al-Mund who is one of the great scholars and he belongs to the second generation of Hanbilah and he has up to four hundred works.

            Among those who also declared consensus regarding it are Imm Ab Muhammad bin Hazm and Abl-Faraj bin al-Jawz. The scholars have reported it with chains of narrations from the companions and the Tbin (followers). They have mentioned it in accordance to the book of Allh and His messengers (sall Allhu alayhi wa sallam) Sunnah. They have extensively talked about it in accordance with the revealed evidence, even if there are mathematical evidence for it as well.

            Some of the evidence are the words of Allh (tal):

            وَهُوَ الَّذِي خَلَقَ اللَّيْلَ وَالنَّهَارَ وَالشَّمْسَ وَالْقَمَرَ كُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ

            And He it is Who has created the night and the day, and the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating.

            (The Qurn 21:33, interpretation of its meanings)

            لَا الشَّمْسُ يَنبَغِي لَهَا أَن تُدْرِكَ الْقَمَرَ وَلَا اللَّيْلُ سَابِقُ النَّهَارِ وَكُلٌّ فِي فَلَكٍ يَسْبَحُونَ

            It is not for the sun to overtake the moon, nor does the night outstrip the day. They all float, each in an orbit.

            (The Qurn 36:40, interpretation of the meanings)

            Ibn Abbs and others from among the Salaf said:

            An orbit like the arc of a spinning wheel.1

            This explicitly proves the shape of a circle. The basis for that is the word Falak that means a round thing. The Qurn interpreters and the linguists are in agreement that the word Falak means round. In order to have knowledge about the meanings of the book of Allh, it requires that one takes from these two sources: reliable Qurn-interpreters from the Salaf and the Arabic language the Qurn was revealed in. Allh (tal) said:

            يُكَوِّرُ اللَّيْلَ عَلَى النَّهَارِ وَيُكَوِّرُ النَّهَارَ عَلَى اللَّيْلِ

            He makes the night to go in the day and makes the day to go in the night.

            (The Qurn 39:5, interpretation of its meanings)

            They said that Takwr means to make something encircled. One also says that one has made the Turban into a Takwr, that is to say wrapped it in circles.

            The night and day and all other periods follow a motion since periods are the measurements of motion. The motion is maintained by a moving body. If time that follows the motion that follows the body is described with the shape of a circle, then the body itself has more right to be it (I.e. circle shaped). Allh (tal) said:

            الَّذِي خَلَقَ سَبْعَ سَمَاوَاتٍ طِبَاقًا مَّا تَرَى فِي خَلْقِ الرَّحْمَنِ مِن تَفَاوُتٍ,

            Who has created the seven heavens one above another, you can see no fault in the creations of the Most Beneficent.

            (The Qurn 67:3, interpretation of the meanings)

            Majm-ul-Fatw (6/586-587)

            I got the translation from a Madhkhali site. Pretty good though...
            Verily! The Mutaqeen (righteous) will dwell among gardens and rivers,
            in a seat of truth (ie. Paradise), near The Omnipotent King.
            -Abu Bakr Mostafa

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            • #7
              Wa alai kum as salaam wa Rahmatullah

              what is the reality of the allegation that Ibn Baz Rahimahullah said that Earth is Stationary?? I heard that Ibn Baz Rahimahullah wrote a book on this subject and challenged people to prove that Earth is not stationary!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mohammed Zama Khan View Post
                Wa alai kum as salaam wa Rahmatullah

                what is the reality of the allegation that Ibn Baz Rahimahullah said that Earth is Stationary?? I heard that Ibn Baz Rahimahullah wrote a book on this subject and challenged people to prove that Earth is not stationary!!
                Yes he did say that.

                Comment


                • #9
                  It is listed on his official website:

                  http://www.binbaz.org.sa/mat/21286
                  2- الأدلة النقلية والحسية على إمكان الصعود إلى الكواكب وعلى جريان الشمس وسكون الأرض .
                  Downloadable here.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    So does this mean that the Shaykh is not only exhonorated by the atrocity of the enemies of islam for having impugned him with the idea of the earth being flat, but he also advocated that the earth actually travelled (as in an orbit) and was NOT stationary.

                    Ikhwaan, if these are established and saheeh, then this by itself deserves a severe output of showing the truth of us as a whole and our dawah and the integrity we have along with out superior logic as well as exposing their media malpractice at the same time.

                    if there are any skilled arabic readers and translators who can provide even tidbits of this material in English, that would be great

                    asalamu alaykum
                    ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


                    "I have debated with the Ash'aris
                    and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


                    May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
                    that granted victory to them before.


                    http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

                    http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

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                    • #11
                      He never said the earth is flat. However, from the title, the book is about the earth being stationary while the sun revolves around it.

                      Ibn Uthaymin held this view and there are still Saudi Tullab al-Ilm till today who hold this view.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        oh my bad. I switched my reading of that post so i understood the topic in reverse.

                        the poster said this

                        I heard that Ibn Baz Rahimahullah wrote a book on this subject and challenged people to prove that Earth is not stationary
                        but i though he said this

                        I heard that Ibn Baz Rahimahullah wrote a book on this subject and challenged people to prove that Earth is stationary
                        asalamu alaykum
                        ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


                        "I have debated with the Ash'aris
                        and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


                        May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
                        that granted victory to them before.


                        http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

                        http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Abu Bakr b. Nasir View Post
                          He never said the earth is flat. However, from the title, the book is about the earth being stationary while the sun revolves around it.

                          Ibn Uthaymin held this view and there are still Saudi Tullab al-Ilm till today who hold this view.
                          how would you treat this stance in light of what you know to be correct or not?

                          masalama
                          ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


                          "I have debated with the Ash'aris
                          and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


                          May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
                          that granted victory to them before.


                          http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

                          http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            It is just a mistake based on what they feel are the dhahir of a few verses (although that is highly debatable). Most of them have not studied modern science or understand little about it.

                            It is best for people to realize that these Shaykhs are respected scholars - and rightfully so - but they do not have a monopoly on all forms of knowledge.

                            However, it should also be emphasized that the media has continually and persistently spread the lie that Sh. Bin Baz held the earth to be flat and even that he made Takfir of those who reject this.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Abu Bakr b. Nasir View Post
                              It is just a mistake based on what they feel are the dhahir of a few verses (although that is highly debatable). Most of them have not studied modern science or understand little about it.

                              It is best for people to realize that these Shaykhs are respected scholars - and rightfully so - but they do not have a monopoly on all forms of knowledge.

                              However, it should also be emphasized that the media has continually and persistently spread the lie that Sh. Bin Baz held the earth to be flat and even that he made Takfir of those who reject this.
                              What if it is said that earth is stationary relative to our motion, while sun revolve around it? So for a person travelling in an airplane, the airplane is not moving even though it is moving for those on earth. Same goes for earth... Qur'an describe these things with reference to our position and motion. Hence, the earth is spreaded for us even if it may not be as such for some huge body.



                              --*--

                              المشبه يعبد صنما والمعطل يعبد عدما

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