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  • #16
    [QUOTE=seekthetruth;35155]I still have trouble putting the above with this point from Aqeedah Tahawiyah:


    تَعَالَى اللَّهُ عَنِ الحُدُودِ وَالغَاياتِ، وَالأَرْكانِ وَالأَدَواتِ، لا تَحْوِيهِ الجِهَاتُ السِّتُّ كَسَائِرِ المُبْتَدَعاتِ.

    38. He is beyond having limits placed on Him, or being restricted, or having parts or limbs. Nor is He contained by the six directions as all created things are.
    yes Allah is not enclose, contain, encompass, surround by the 6 dirction he is ABOVE and you can read that in the same book

    50. He is independent of the Throne and what is beneath it.

    51. He encompasses everything and is above it, and what He has created is incapable of encompassing Him.

    Also, isn't it wrong to say Allah s.w.t is ON the 'Arsh? doesn't this mean it is touching him etc, also, where do we get "ON" from, don't we simply stick to "above" or "istiwa" and that's it?[/]
    Allah is Above the Arsh
    "The Human being is an enemy to what he is ignorant of"

    Islam Basics Blog

    The Call to Islam and The Caller

    Comment


    • #17
      tahawi said :

      تعالى عن الحدود والغايات والأركان والأعضاء والأدوات لا تحويه الجهات الستّ كسائر المبتدعات

      so tahawi said that allah cannot be contained by any of the six directions ...

      and " above " is one of the six directions/

      there's contradiction in tahawi's views at first sight but if we use majaz to understand hos other words about being above the arsh then this is what the quran said and above here is not a direction but status.

      ws

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Mutazili View Post
        tahawi said :

        تعالى عن الحدود والغايات والأركان والأعضاء والأدوات لا تحويه الجهات الستّ كسائر المبتدعات

        so tahawi said that allah cannot be contained by any of the six directions ...

        and " above " is one of the six directions/

        there's contradiction in tahawi's views at first sight but if we use majaz to understand hos other words about being above the arsh then this is what the quran said and above here is not a direction but status.
        ws
        the problem with your dose of medicine is that it improperly placed "majaaz" in the wrong side of the bed. His point on Allah being "alal arsh" is not what should be made into majaaz, rather it is his point of "being contained in the six directions" that should be made into majaaz.

        WHY?

        because the early arab linguists and exegetes agreed that the Qur'an itself HAS NO MAJAAZ". In other words the fact that Allah said "alal arsh" is to take it as is as the early muslims relayed about the sifaat.

        However, the kalaam of people can take majaaz and the view of six directions is a statement made by people, not by Allah. Thus, if we were going to even use majaaz, it would be more proper LINGUISTICALLY and THEOLOGICALLY to incorporate majaaz into his statement on the six directions more so than Allah's statement of "alal arsh"

        secondly,

        there is no contradiction in the articulation of at-Tahawee's creed to begin with.

        Both of his statements can be understood AS IS from its apparent meaning. WHY?

        because the six directions that the philosophers made mention of were
        1. up
        2. down
        3. left
        4. right
        5. front
        6. back

        whereas "above" IS NOT a direction within the confines of the philosophical spectrum of the meaning of direction, rather it is a "state".

        Thirdly, at-Tahawee constricted his creedal statement in point 38 by saying
        "He is not CONFINED (bound) by the six direction"

        YET affirmed Allah's literal elevation of "Aboveness" or fawqiyyah, 'uloow, etc.

        In other words, at-Tahawee is saying that Allah is NOT BOUND and confined into direction and not that it negates His highness.

        WHY? because we, the people of Islam and the prophetic guidance say that it is the creation that is confined and limited to a spatial direction and NOT Allah and when Allah created the creation, it would only be natural for an existent God to create another created thing that exist beneath Him and it would not befit the Majesty of Allah that He would create a creature and place the creature above Him. So it is the creation that is confined into a spatial direction whereas Allah is above and beyond such limitations.

        LASTLY

        There is no single person on the planet who interprets the following ayaah and hadeeth

        “Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you, and then it should quake?
        17. Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not send against you a violent whirlwind? Then you shall know how (terrible) has been My Warning” [al-Mulk 67:16-17]
        And the Prophet (blessings and peace of Allah be upon him) said: “Do you not trust me, when I am the trustee of the One Who is above the heaven and the news of heaven comes to me morning and evening?” Narrated by al-Bukhari (4351) and Muslim (1064). And he also said: “Show mercy to those who are on earth so that the One Who is in heaven will show mercy to you.” Narrated by al-Tirmidhi (no. 1924) – he said it is hasan sahih. And he also said: “When Allah created the universe, he wrote in His Book, which is with Him above the Throne: “My mercy prevails over My wrath.” Narrated by al-Bukhari (3194) and Muslim (2751).


        as if what is meant here is highness in "status". the arabic language does not support this nor does any logical deduction of what is being stated factor such a far fetched interpretation for something so clear.
        ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


        "I have debated with the Ash'aris
        and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


        May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
        that granted victory to them before.


        http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

        http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by al-boriqee View Post

          There is no single person on the planet who interprets the following ayaah and hadeeth

          “Do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not cause the earth to sink with you, and then it should quake?
          17. Or do you feel secure that He, Who is over the heaven (Allah), will not send against you a violent whirlwind? Then you shall know how (terrible) has been My Warning” [al-Mulk 67:16-17]
          this is not true :

          alqortobi said about this verse that it was reported that it's about angels and some say jibreel(as) and i (qortobi) say it's likely that the sense is : the creator of those in heaben(skies)...

          قيل هو إشارة إلى الملائكة، وقيل الى جبريل الموكل بالعذاب. قلت : ويحتمل أن يكون المعنى : خالق من في السماء ان يخسف بكم الارض كما خسفها بقارون

          qadhi iyadh said as reported by nawawi :

          لا خِلافَ بين المسلمين قاطبةً فقيههم ومحدثهم ومتكلمهم ونظارهم ومقلدهم أنّ الظواهر الواردة بذكر الله تعالى في السماء كقوله تعالى : " أأمنتم من في السماء" ونحوه ليست على ظاهرها بل متأولة عند جميعهم

          so he claimed complete ija3 about interpreting this verse (taweel)

          so what you said is simply not the reflection of truth but your opinion.

          also you blame me for interpreting words of tahawi but you did interpret his other words yourself.

          this is matter of opinion and my opinion is clear

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Mutazili View Post
            this is not true :

            alqortobi said about this verse that it was reported that it's about angels and some say jibreel(as) and i (qortobi) say it's likely that the sense is : the creator of those in heaben(skies)...

            قيل هو إشارة إلى الملائكة، وقيل الى جبريل الموكل بالعذاب. قلت : ويحتمل أن يكون المعنى : خالق من في السماء ان يخسف بكم الارض كما خسفها بقارون
            Imam Tabari and other scholars of Sunnah who came before al Qurtubi -rahimahum Allahu jamee'an- explained that "who" in the ayah refers to Allah Azza wa Jal, and not Angels.

            plz check the end of this article for their statments on this:
            http://as-salaf.com/article.php?aid=62&lang=en




            qadhi iyadh said as reported by nawawi :

            لا خِلافَ بين المسلمين قاطبةً فقيههم ومحدثهم ومتكلمهم ونظارهم ومقلدهم أنّ الظواهر الواردة بذكر الله تعالى في السماء كقوله تعالى : " أأمنتم من في السماء" ونحوه ليست على ظاهرها بل متأولة عند جميعهم

            so he claimed complete ija3 about interpreting this verse (taweel)
            Read what is after that and you will see what he meant.
            فمن قال باثبات جهة فوق من غير تحديد ولا تكييف من المحدثين والفقهاء والمتكلمين تأول في السماء
            أي على السماء ومن قال من دهماء النظار والمتكلمين وأصحاب التنزيه بنفي الحد واستحالة الجهة في حقه سبحانه وتعالى تأولوها تأويلات بحسب مقتضاها

            so he is saying that each group made some type of tawil to the ayah, some interpreting the part "fi as-sama", he didn't mean that all Muslim scholars explained "who" to refer to other than Allah Azza wa Jal.

            I already gave you a link where there are statments of early scholars of sunnah explaining "who" in ayah to refer to Allah Azza wa Jal.
            .

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Mutazili View Post
              this is not true :

              alqortobi said about this verse that it was reported that it's about angels and some say jibreel(as) and i (qortobi) say it's likely that the sense is : the creator of those in heaben(skies)...
              your right and wrong. Your right that I was wrong, however Im right in the sense that when I said "no one", I should have qualified who I meant by "no one" by saying "no one from those whose theological elucidations were uncontested as flawlessly the aqeedah of the ahlu-sunnah, the ahlul-hadeth wal-athaar"

              So with this qualification, this excludes peoples whose doctrine had errors like al-Qurtubee, who was correct and some matters (in refutating the concepts of the jahmiyyah, mutazilah, falsafia, and was mistaken in others like in adopting the arguments that was born out of the mu'tazilah like the ash'aris.

              Rather the people of Islam, those whom they rely upon in their creed are those whose creedal doctrine were flawless, those who were codifiers of the madhaab of Muhammad, the companions, their senior students and the specialists of theology in the early Muslim thought process LIKE Ahmad bin Hanbal, Ibn Ma'een, Uthmaan Bin Sa'eed, Ibn Abi Shaybah, Ibn Abi Zayd, Bukhaaree, Muslim, Abu Dawud, Tirmidhee, Abu Zur'ah, Abu Haatim, Ibn Abi Haatim, Abu Ubayd al-Qaasim, Abu Ayyoob as-Sakhtiyaanee, Shafi'ee, Maalik, Layth Bin S'ad, Uyaina, Thawree were those who codified and crystallized the Aqeedah Allah intended for us to have.


              Ibn 'Abbass said of the ayaah

              { ءَأَمِنتُمْ مَّن فِي ٱلسَّمَآءِ أَن يَخْسِفَ بِكُمُ ٱلأَرْضَ فَإِذَا هِيَ تَمُورُ }

              (Have ye taken security) by your transgression, O people of Mecca, (from Him Who is in the heaven) from the chastisement of He Who is in Heaven established on the Throne (that He will not cause the earth to swallow you when lo! it is convulsed) swirling with you to the seventh earth, just as it has swallowed Korah?

              the statement of a sahaabee equals fard in aqeedah, the statement of a khalaf equals acceptable or rejectionable in aqeedah.

              قيل هو إشارة إلى الملائكة، وقيل الى جبريل الموكل بالعذاب. قلت : ويحتمل أن يكون المعنى : خالق من في السماء ان يخسف بكم الارض كما خسفها بقارون

              qadhi iyadh said as reported by nawawi :

              لا خِلافَ بين المسلمين قاطبةً فقيههم ومحدثهم ومتكلمهم ونظارهم ومقلدهم أنّ الظواهر الواردة بذكر الله تعالى في السماء كقوله تعالى : " أأمنتم من في السماء" ونحوه ليست على ظاهرها بل متأولة عند جميعهم

              so he claimed complete ija3 about interpreting this verse (taweel)
              Thats good for the claim of ijmaa, but unfortunately we have no ijmaa to be found. In other words, when we actually scrutinize how the salaf utilized the ayaah, they actually stated their affirmation of Allah's literal aboveness (fawqiyyah) and it is plenty in their refutations of the Jahmiyyah.

              More importantly, I will utilize Ahmad bin Hanbal, THE codifier of the madhaab of the people of Islam and the propheetic guidance, the Imaam Ahlu-Sunnah who said in his refutation of the Jahmiyyah the following

              XII. Where Allah is and Where He is Not

              Bab: An exposition of the denial by the Jahmiya that Allah is on the throne.

              We asked them: Why do you deny that Allah is on the throne when He said: The God of Mercy is established (istiaqrar) on His throne? 20-4 And again, ...Who in six days created the Hevaens and the Earth... then mounted His throne. 25-60 They replied: He is under the seven earths as He is on the throne; He is in heaven, on earth and in every place; there is no place where he is not, nor is He in one place to the exclusion of any other. And they quoted the verse: And He is God in the Heavens and on the Earth. 6-3 We said: The Muslims know of many a place where there is no trace whatsoever of the might of the Lord. They said: And where is that? We replied: Your bodies, your insides and pigs’ insides, in privies and unclean places, in all of which there is no trace of the Lord’s might.

              Allah told us that He is in Heaven, saying: What are ye sure that He who is in Heaven will not cleave the Earth beneath you?..Or are you sure that He who is in Heaven will not send against you a stone-charged whirl-wind? 67-16,17 And again: ...The good word riseth up to Him. 35-2 And again: ...O Jesus! Verily I will cause thee to die, and will take thee up to myself. 3-48 And again: ...But Allah took him up to Himself. 4-156 And again: All beings in Heaven and in Earth are His, and they who are in His presence... 21-19 And again: They fear their Lord who is above them... 16-52 And again: ...The Master of those ascents 70-3 And again: His servants... 6-18 And again: ...He is the High, the Great. 2-256 This then tells us that He is in Heaven.

              The following verses show us that all beneath Him are villainaous: Verily the hypocrites shall be in the lowest abssy of the fire...4-144 And again: And they who believe not shall say, O our Lord! Show us those of the jinn and men who led us astray: both of them will we put under our feet that they be of the humbled. 41-29


              Here, in the above quote, Ahmad bin Hanbal, the orthodox athari sunni established that not only is God literally Himself above the Throne, He UTILIZED the ayaah of suratul-Mulk ayaah 16 and 17 as proof that He literally is over the heaven. The fact that Imaam Ahmad bin Hanbal stated this and made this his creed is what the entire Muslim ummah conceded to BECAUSE
              1. Imaam Ahmad was Imaam ahlus-Sunnah and
              2. everyone before Ahmad advocated this position in contrast with the jahmiyyah who said that Allah was everyone and the Mutazilah who said the highness was "status" and not a reality.

              thus, the "reported ijmaa" as you state is from Nawawee is an erroneous blunder on the part of an-Nawawee for which we seek Allah's forgiveness on Imaam an-Nawawee rahimahullah that Allah absolve him from this heresy through the immense benefit that he established for the ummah in everything else outside of the realm of doctrine. The same goes for Qadhi Abu Y'ala, may Allah forgive him for the blunder and their erroneous doctrine for which the Muslim does not seek to utilize their unintentional corrupted doctrine as proof of Islamic theology, rather the proof of Islamic theology is in what we find the codifiers of Islam in the generation of the salaf to have established as Islam.

              More importantly, if we have a look at the underlined portion of the texts, we find that NOT ONLY did Ahmad bin Hanbal UTILIZE the ayaah that we are talking about, he also utilized a plethora of other ayaah in the Qur'an about Allah literally being over the Throne.

              so what you said is simply not the reflection of truth but your opinion.
              what I said was the reflection of truth which I just so happened to adopt as my opinion and what you said, an-Nawawee said, and al-Qurtubee, and Abu Y'ala, and al-Ash'ari, and other than them said, who are not relied upon in the world of theology, all of such statements are based on opinion by which it has been proven through assessment that their statements do not reflect the true Islamic reality and thus an opinion that is baseless and rejected no matter their status in our eyes for the truth is dearer to the Muslim than the personality, and that truth lie at the hands of the entirety of the salaf, and Ahmad bin Hanbal being the codifer of all of them and the persona of the whole of the salaf in his very being, hence imaam Ahlu-Sunnah

              also you blame me for interpreting words of tahawi but you did interpret his other words yourself.
              I did not "blame" you for interpreting his words, I blamed you for misappropriating where to place the "interpretation of his words". In other words i do not reject that his words need explaining, but as I proven to you through basic realities of arabic, his words are to be interpreted regarding his humanly concocted speech of the "six directions" RATHER than the Divinely revealed speech of "Alal-Arsh" simply from the fact that the original arabs, the linguist among them were unified on the fact that the Qur'an itself HAS NO MAJAAZ and as such, Allah's words do not prone to receive majaaz or to be understood in the majaaz as no one from the ummah prior to Jahm had this viewpoint and thus everyone who follows the opinion that the Qur'an or Allah's words regarding Himself needs to be understood through Majaaz, then their Imaam is none other than Jahm bin Safwaan for this concocted theory was traced back to him as the origin of the one who brought this heresy into the Islamic nation.

              this is matter of opinion and my opinion is clear
              your opinion is clear to all and sundry. No one doubts that you are a jahmi in your doctrinal constitution (aqeedah) and this fact has been made clear to all, so there is no dispute here.
              ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


              "I have debated with the Ash'aris
              and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


              May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
              that granted victory to them before.


              http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

              http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

              Comment


              • #22
                tahawi said :

                تعالى عن الحدود والغايات والأركان والأعضاء والأدوات لا تحويه الجهات الستّ كسائر المبتدعات

                so tahawi said that allah cannot be contained by any of the six directions ...

                and " above " is one of the six directions/

                there's contradiction in tahawi's views at first sight but if we use majaz to understand hos other words about being above the arsh then this is what the quran said and above here is not a direction but status.
                http://www.abovethethrone.com/arsh/a...ontain-him.cfm
                www.call-to-monotheism.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  MAN

                  they utterly annihilated whoever opines differently than us in that link. Someone has to be a fool if they do not convert to Sunnism after reading that link.

                  they are bad

                  asalamu alaikum
                  ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


                  "I have debated with the Ash'aris
                  and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


                  May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
                  that granted victory to them before.


                  http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

                  http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    I came across this saying of Allah the Most High:

                    قُلْ مَن رَّبُّ السَّمَاوَاتِ السَّبْعِ وَرَبُّ الْعَرْشِ الْعَظِيمِ
                    سَيَقُولُونَ لِلَّهِ ۚ قُلْ أَفَلَا تَتَّقُونَ

                    Say: "Who is (the) Lord of the seven heavens, and (the) Lord of the Great Throne?"

                    They will say: "Allah." Say: "Will you not then fear Allah?" [23:86-87]

                    We know that the pre-Islamic Arabs not only believed in Allah but it is also interesting to note that they affirmed a Throne for Him too. I was unable to find any explanation from the tafaseer in regards to the nature of their belief in the Throne - If anyone is able to provide any, that would be beneficial as one more nail in the Ashari coffin.

                    It is indeed a sad state of affairs where the idolators of Makkah affirmed something for Allah which these mutakalimoon in most part, do not!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      I have heard that most of the things mentioned in the Qur´an about the structure of the Universe were believed in by the pagans and the Jews. For example the seven heavens were something arabs believed in before the revelation of the Qur´an as well as the Jews. The seven earth also, the Throne, Angels, Jinns, and so on.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        well the Arabs were at the begining upon the religion of Ibraheem alayhi assalam, but as time went by they strayed away from it, and started to commit shirk in worship, and denying resurrection and some other deviant false beliefs, but they still believed Allah existed, they actually worshiped those idols believing them to be intercessors for them to get close to Allah Azza wa Jal.
                        as for the jews, well the Torah was the book that Musa alayhi wa sallam came with, and although a lot of it has been distorted and corrupted, some of it is still authentic, what is in confirmaty with the Quran and Sunnah is authentic, and what contradicts it is false and a distortion.
                        Same with the bible (Injeel)
                        .

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Assalamu alykum

                          i want reply of this statement

                          Imam Nawawi quoted

                          Imam Qadhi Iyad (rah) [Also Quoted by Imam Jalal ud din Suyuti rah in his Sharah of Sunnan Nasa'i]


                          قال القاضي عياض : لا خلاف بين المسلمين قاطبة فقيههم ومحدثهم ومتكلمهم ونظارهم ومقلدهم أن الظواهر الواردة بذكر الله تعالى في السماء كقوله تعالى : { أأمنتم من في السماء أن يخسف بكم الأرض } ونحوه ليست على ظاهرها , بل متأولة عند جميعهم


                          Qadhi Iyaad (rah) said: There is no disagreement amongst Muslims whether between Fuqaha, or hadith scholars, the theologians, polemicists and ordinary Muslims who do taqlid, they all say that outward meaning of texts such as Allah is in the sky is not meant, for example the words of the Exalted: “Are you assured that He who is in the sky will not cause the earth to swallow you up?"THESE AND SIMILAR TEXTS CANNOT BE TAKEN LITERALLY, RATHER THEY ARE TO BE EXPLAINED WITH INTERPRETATION (I.E. TAWEEL)

                          Sahih Muslim bi Sharh al-Nawawi, Volume No.5, Page Nos. 19-20, Published by Dar ul Fikr, Beirut, Lebanon

                          Imam, Mullah Ali Qari (rah) says in his magnificent Mirqaat Sharh al Mishqaat

                          You know that Imam Malik and al-Awazai, who are among the greatest of the early Muslims, both gave detailed figurative interpretations to the hadith, Another of them was Jafar al-Sadiq. Indeed a whole group of them [the early Muslims], as well as later scholars, said that whoever believes Allah to be in a particular physical direction is an unbeliever, as al-Iraqi has explicitly stated, saying that this was the position of Abu Hanifa, Malik, al-Shafi'i, al-Ashari, and al- Baqillani

                          (Mirqat al-mafatih: sharh Mishkat al-masabih. 5 vols. Cairo 1309/1892. Reprint. Beirut: Dar Ihya al-Turath al-Arabi, n.d., 2.137 under The Hadith of Descent)

                          i also know that there are narrations from Imam Malik,Abu haneefa,Awzaai and others which affirm the believe that ALLAH is above but how can we reply to these statements? totally contradiction

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            also this

                            Imam Ibn Hajr al Asqalani (rah) says


                            قوله : ( ينزل ربنا إلى السماء الدنيا ) ‏
                            استدل به من أثبت الجهة وقال : هي جهة العلو , وأنكر ذلك الجمهور لأن القول بذلك يفضي إلى التحيز تعالى الله عن ذلك .


                            Translation: Those who ''assert direction'' for Allah have used this hadith as proof that He is in the direction of above-ness(uluww). The vast majority of the scholars reject this, because saying such leads to establishing boundaries for Him and Allah is exalted above that.[Fath ul Bari Sharh Sahih ul Bukhari, Volume No.3, Page No. 338 - Dar ul Fikr]

                            who are these vast majority? when we see Sahaba and tabiyeen they affirm the belief that ALLAH is above,

                            Imam Ibn Hajr writes:

                            فمنهم من حمله على ظاهره وحقيقته وهم المشبهة تعالى الله عن قولهم

                            Translation: Some say that the ''Literal meaning is meant in true sense'': these are the Mushabbiha and Allah is exalted above what they say.

                            so can we say ibn e hajar erred in saying these are mushabbiha? or is there any other taweel?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              ISLAMDEFENDER, your questions, comments and the position of Imam Nawawi and Ibn Hajar you bring, have already been discussed and clarified on this forum. You may want to search for them.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by abu_umayza View Post
                                I came across this saying of Allah the Most High:

                                قُلْ مَن رَّبُّ السَّمَاوَاتِ السَّبْعِ وَرَبُّ الْعَرْشِ الْعَظِيمِ
                                سَيَقُولُونَ لِلَّهِ ۚ قُلْ أَفَلَا تَتَّقُونَ

                                Say: "Who is (the) Lord of the seven heavens, and (the) Lord of the Great Throne?"

                                They will say: "Allah." Say: "Will you not then fear Allah?" [23:86-87]

                                We know that the pre-Islamic Arabs not only believed in Allah but it is also interesting to note that they affirmed a Throne for Him too. I was unable to find any explanation from the tafaseer in regards to the nature of their belief in the Throne - If anyone is able to provide any, that would be beneficial as one more nail in the Ashari coffin.

                                It is indeed a sad state of affairs where the idolators of Makkah affirmed something for Allah which these mutakalimoon in most part, do not!

                                I want to know if this hadeeth has been discussed elsewhere in Multaqa?

                                لما في مسند أحمد عن أبي بن كعب: أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم سأله أي آية في كتاب الله أعظم؟ قال: الله ورسوله أعلم فرددها مراراً ثم قال أبي: آية الكرسي، قال: ليهنك العلم أبا المنذر.. والذي نفسي بيده إن لها لسانا وشفتين تقدس الملك عند ساق العرش. قال الهيثمي: رواه أحمد ورجاله رجال الصحيح

                                Imam Ahmad records that `Ubayy bin Ka`b said that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) asked him about the greatest Ayah in the Book of Allah, and `Ubayy answered, "Allah and His Messenger know better.'' When the Prophet repeated his question several times, `Ubayy said, "Ayat Al-Kursi.'' The Prophet commented: Congratulations for having knowledge, O Abu Al-Mundhir! By He in Whose Hand is my soul! This Ayah has a tongue and two lips with which she praises the King (Allah) next to the leg of the Throne.

                                Al-Haythami declared it's narrators to be trustworthy. Is there a general acceptance of it's authenticity? If so, then I'd like to know how the disparate Asha'irah make ta'weel of it. Jazakallah khair.

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