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Imam Mujahid Affirmed a Makaan (Place) for Allah

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  • Imam Mujahid Affirmed a Makaan (Place) for Allah

    Assalamu Alaykum,

    Imam Mujahid needs no introduction to you students of knowledge. He is one of the great students of Ibn Abbass. We learn mostly about Ibn Abbas's commentaries through Imam Mujahid. He is indeed one of the great scholars of the Salaf.

    Below we have the following narration to Imam Mujahid:

    حدثنا الوليد حدثنا محمد بن عمار حدثنا يحيى حدثنا شبل عن ابن أبي نجيح عن مجاهد رحمه الله تعالى في قوله تعالى وقربناه نجيا قال بين السماء السابعة وبين العرش سبعون ألف حجاب حجاب نور وحجاب ظلمة وحجاب نور وحجاب ظلمة فما زال موسى عليه السلام يقرب حتى كان بينه وبينه حجاب فلما رأى مكانه وسمع صريف القلم قال رب أرني أنظر إليك

    Al Waleed - Muhammad bin Amaar - Yahya -Shibil - Ibn Abi Najeeh - Mujahid said in regards to Allah's statement wa qarabnaahu najeeya (19:52): Between the fourth heaven (or he said) seventh heaven, and between the Throne there are 70,000 veils. These are veils of light and veils of darkness. Musa kept getting closer until there was between him (i.e. Musa) and Him (i.e. Allah) a single veil. So when he saw His (i.e. Allah) place and heard the chirping of the Pen [He said My Lord allow me to look at you].
    Imam Al Dhahabi said that this narration is firm from Mujahid the Imam of Tafsir (هذا ثابت عن مجاهد إمام التفسير). He also said that this is reported by Imam Al Bayhaqi in his book Al Asmaa' Wal Sifaat, no.96 and by Abu Al Shaykh in his Al Udhma, Volume 2, no. 49

    The only thing that Al Kawthari could do is argue that Imam Mujahid is not infallible...

    لا حجة في كلام غير المعصوم ومجاهد ممن يروي عن أهل الكتاب
    Shaykh Al Albani on narration no. 110 in Al Mukhtasar Al 'Uluww comments as follows:

    Its isnaad is Saheeh. All of its men are trustworthy and Al Kawthari the Jahmi in his commentary on Al Asmaa' criticized it based on the age of ibin 'Ubaada and he is a trustworthy narrator who is used as proof in the Saheehayn. And Shibil bin 'Ubaad is trustworthy and he is from the men of Al Bukhari, and when criticizing him he said nothing more than Qadri. Is this a valid kind of criticism?

    Now I am sure that Imam Mujahid didn't mean by "place" that spatial location surrounding Allah. Rather, he meant to indicate where Allah is (i.e. above the seven heavens). But Asharis would declare this to be a statement of kufr.
    www.call-to-monotheism.com

  • #2
    Brother Bassam,

    As-salamu alaikum.

    Can you prove that the pronoun attached to مكان does not refer back to Musa (a.s.)?

    Can it mean the place of Musa (a.s.)?

    Comment


    • #3
      Brother it is clear it is referring to Allah. There is no dispute on that. Even the infamous Al Kawthari recognized that.
      www.call-to-monotheism.com

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Abu Yunus View Post
        Brother Bassam,

        As-salamu alaikum.

        Can you prove that the pronoun attached to مكان does not refer back to Musa (a.s.)?

        Can it mean the place of Musa (a.s.)?
        a classic example of clutching at straws in order to appease certain ash'ari inclinations. The fact that you were willing to completely defy all arabic logic and twist the hadeeth around rather than to understand the narration as Bassam did with the following
        Now I am sure that Imam Mujahid didn't mean by "place" that spatial location surrounding Allah. Rather, he meant to indicate where Allah is (i.e. above the seven heavens).
        reveals a lot about yourself.

        the "hu" in makaan is referring to Adam seeing Allah's makaan, not Allah seeing Musa's makaan.

        jazakallahu khairan akhee Bassam for this wonderful and excellent athar. what page number from the mukhtasir did you get this from?

        asalamu alaikum
        ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


        "I have debated with the Ash'aris
        and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


        May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
        that granted victory to them before.


        http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

        http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

        Comment


        • #5
          the "hu" in makaan is referring to Adam seeing Allah's makaan, not Allah seeing Musa's makaan.
          ease up on Abu Yunus. I only get rude with him when he gets unnecessarily philosophical. Here he asked a valid question. Abu Yunus wasn't suggesting that Allah saw Musa's makaan, but Musa saw his own makaan.

          Perhaps to us layman reading it, I think it looks possible. But if Al Kawthari and other Asharis understood it to mean that Musa saw Allah's makaan, well then I guess that must be it.


          From the Mukhtasar, go to no. 110.
          www.call-to-monotheism.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bassam Zawadi View Post
            Brother it is clear it is referring to Allah. There is no dispute on that. Even the infamous Al Kawthari recognized that.
            Imam Al-Kawthari is not infallible...

            If there is no dispute, then it should not be difficult to produce the evidence.

            It's just a request.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Abu Yunus View Post
              Imam Al-Kawthari is not infallible...
              The only thing that Al Kawthari could do is argue that Imam Mujahid is not infallible...
              Thats an interesting manhaj for when you can't explain something

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Usool as-Sunnah View Post
                Thats an interesting manhaj for when you can't explain something
                I am not trying to explain anything.

                I am trying to ask a valid question without being insulted.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ease up on Abu Yunus bros, he's asking a reasonable question. Can someone grammatically show with certainty that Mujahid is referring to Allah?

                  It seems pretty obvious that he is, but bro Abu Yunus wants a little more certainty.
                  www.call-to-monotheism.com

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Bassam Zawadi View Post
                    Ease up on Abu Yunus bros, he's asking a reasonable question. Can someone grammatically show with certainty that Mujahid is referring to Allah?

                    It seems pretty obvious that he is, but bro Abu Yunus wants a little more certainty.
                    Because part of the Usool of Ahl as-Sunnah is that you don't argue just for the sake of arguments as it states in my signature. He's just trying to argue something that is so obvious; even al-Kawthari didn't go there

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Do you know that I am arguing for the sake of arguments?

                      I learned many things from Brother Bassam - may Allah reward him abundantly.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Abu Yunus View Post
                        Do you know that I am arguing for the sake of arguments?

                        I learned many things from Brother Bassam - may Allah reward him abundantly.
                        Because you're arguing a point that even the Imaam of Ahl al-Bid`ah wouldn't argue.

                        But I agree, may Allah reward brother Bassam, his debates are excellent and he represents Ahl as-Sunnah very well

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Usool as-Sunnah View Post
                          Because you're arguing a point that even the Imaam of Ahl al-Bid`ah wouldn't argue.
                          Asking a reasonable question does not constitute arguing.

                          I will leave you to your bad opinion, for which you have yet to bring proof.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            How could it be referring to Allah Azza wa Jal (Him seeing Musa's place) when Allah Azza wa Jal can see everything ALL the time, and that sentence is saying that he saw it aftering not seeing it, it says "falamma" (i.e. So when he saw his place...etc.)
                            Plus, after that, it says that he heard sareef of the qalam, and Allah hears everything ALL the time, so it can't be referring to Allah Azza wa Jal.

                            Also, the context starting from "Musa kept getting closer.." up until the end, was speaking about Musa alayhi assalam, there is nothing in there that suggests the speech being changed in the middle to speaking about Allah Azza wa Jal, then switching back to Musa alayhi assalam.
                            .

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Sister, Abu Yunus was suggesting that it could mean that Musa saw his own place. "When Musa saw the place he was in...".
                              www.call-to-monotheism.com

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