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  • Salafi And Wahabi-Differences

    Salaam Alikum
    I Heard One Person Saying That "Wahabis" Are Those Who Don't Follow One Of 4 Imams And "Salafis" Are Those Who Follow One Of 4 Imams e.g "Hanbali-Salafi" And So On,It Also Reached Me That The Imam Of Kaabah Is "Hanbali-Salfai",So Its A Bit Confusing To Understand These Terms Since I Was Under The Impression That "Salafis" And "Wahabis" Are One And Same,Can Someone Clarify That?

  • #2
    Wa' alaikumAssalam wa rahmatullah

    These semantics are mostly used by the laymuslims in indo-pak subcontinent who due to their limited or no knowledge at all fail to understand who is what. Besides, ahle hadis who are famously known as wahhabis in this indo-pak belt does not follow a specific madhab. So when they hear other group following a certain madhab while at the same time having the same aqaid as ahle hadis, they label them as salafis. There is a big misconception among them that ibn wahhab R was against following any madhab and was anti madhdab so whoever follows his teachings they regard them as wahhabis in a more restricted way... This is according to my observation which can be wrong..Allahu Alam..

    Comment


    • #3
      Yeah Brother You Ain't Wrong,You Are 100% Correct And Do You Know Who Was "That Person"?He Himself Is A "Salafi" !
      So You Are Also Right Regarding Muhammad Ibn Abdul Wahb,As Far As I Know,He Respected All 4 Imams........

      Comment


      • #4
        Assalamu Alaykum

        Salafis follow 70% of what madhabs agreed on. The 30% of fiqh they disagreed on is studied by our shaykhs like Bin Baz, Utaymeen etc...

        Someone who follows a madhab is someone who follows that 30% even though there are stronger views than it. The most important thing is that we all follow Athaar aqeedah. If we don't protect our fundamentals, our religion will turn inside out.

        Comment


        • #5
          All Salafis follow the same scholars. Scholars never differed on what is not permissible to differ on (?). And all other names that are labeled to proper Muslims are also wrong and invented by innovators.

          Madhabs agreed on their ageedah and manhaj.

          Some deviants ascribe themselves to a amdhab but they follow different fundamentals.

          [1]: We believe in Allaah and His Names and Attributes, as they were mentioned in the Book of Allaah and in the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah, without tahreef (distortion), nor ta‘weel (figurativeinterpretation), nor tamtheel (making a likeness), nor tashbeeh (resemblance), nor ta’teel (denial).

          [2]: We love the Companions of the Messenger of Allaah, and we hate those who speak against them. We believe that to speak ill of them is to speak ill of the Religion, because they are the ones who conveyed it to us. And we love the Family of the Prophet with love that is permitted by the Sharee’ah.

          [3]: We love the People of Hadeeth and all of the Salaf of the Ummah from Ahlus-Sunnah.

          [4]: We despise ’ilmul-kalaam (knowledge of theological rhetoric), and we view it to be from amongst the greatest reasons for the division in the Ummah.

          [5]: We do not accept anything from the books of fiqh (jurisprudence), nor from the books of tafseer (explanation of the Qur‘aan), nor from the ancient stories, nor from the Seerah (biography) of the Prophet, except that which has been confirmed from Allaah or from His Messenger. We do not mean that we have rejected them, nor do we claim that we are not in need of them. Rather, we benefit from the discoveries of our Scholars and the jurists and other than them. However, we do not accept a ruling, except with an authentic proof.

          [6]: We do not write in our books, nor do we cover in our lessons, nor do we give sermons with anything except the Qur‘aan, or the authentic and authoritative hadeeth. And we detest what emanates from many books and admonishers in terms of false stories and weak and fabricated ahaadeeth.

          [7]: We do not perform takfeer (expel one from Islaam) upon any Muslim due to any sin, except Shirk (polytheism) with Allaah, or the abandonment of Prayer, or apostasy. We seek refuge in Allaah from that.

          [8]: We believe that the Qur‘aan is the Speech of Allaah, it is not created.

          [9]: We hold that our ‘obligation is to co-operate with the group that traverses the methodology of the Book and the Sunnah, and what the Salaf of the Ummah were upon; in terms of calling to Allaah the Glorified, and being sincere in worship of Him, and warning from Shirk, innovations, and disobedience, and to advise all of the groups that oppose this.’ ‘So co-operating upon righteousness and piety (taqwaa) and mutual advising necessitates warning against evil and not co-operating with the wicked.’

          [10]: We do not deem it correct to revolt against the Muslim rulers as long as they are Muslims, nor do we feel that revolutions bring about reconciliation. Rather, they corrupt the community.

          [11]: We hold that this multiplicity of present day parties is a reason for the division of the Muslims and their weakness. So therefore we set about ‘freeing the minds from the fetters of blind-following and the darkness of sectarianism and party spirit.’

          [12]: We restrict our understanding of the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the → Messenger of Allaah to the understanding of the Salaf of the Ummah from the Scholars of hadeeth, not the blind-followers of their individuals. Rather, we take the truth from wherever it comes. And we know that there are those who claim Salafiyyah, yet Salafiyyah is free from them, since they bring to the society what Allaah has prohibited. We believe in ‘cultivating the young generation upon this Islaam, purified from all that we have mentioned, giving to them a correct Islaamic education from the start - without any influence from the disbelieving western education.’

          [13]: We believe that politics is a part of the Religion, and those who try to separate the Religion from politics are only attempting to destroy the Religion and to spread chaos.

          [14]: We believe that there will be no honour or victory for the Muslims until they return to the Book of Allaah and to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah.

          [15]: We oppose those who divide the Religion into trivialities and important issues. And we know that this is a destructive da’wah.

          [16]: We oppose those who put down the knowledge of the Sunnah, and say that this is not the time for it. Likewise, we oppose those who put down acting upon the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah.

          [17]: Our da’wah and our ’aqeedah is more beloved to us than our own selves, our wealth and our offspring. So we are not prepared to part with it for gold nor silver. We say this so that no one may have hope in buying out our da’wah, nor should he think that it is possible for him to purchase it from us for deenaar or dirham.

          [18]: We love the present day Scholars of the Sunnah and hope to benefit from them and regret the passing away of many of them.

          [19]: We do not accept a fatwaa except from the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah.

          These are glimpses into our ’aqeedah and our da’wah. So if one has any objection to this, then we are prepared to accept advice if it is truthful, and to refute it if it is erroneous, and to avoid it if it is stubborn rejection. And Allaah knows best.

          Endnotes:

          [1] This explanation of our call has been summarized from Tarjumah Abee ’Abdur-Rahmaan Muqbil Ibn Haadee al-Waadi’ee (p. 135-142) of Shaykh Muqbil Ibn Haadee with minor additions from other sources.

          [2] al-Furqaan magazine (issue no. 14, p. 15)

          [3] From Fiqhul-Waaqi’ (p. 49) of Shaykh al-Albaanee

          [4] Fiqhul-Waaqi’ (p. 51)
          Correction of a Historical Misunderstanding Concerning the “Wahhabiyyah”
          It is fitting that I should explain to the reader the reason for which I wrote, Correction of a Historical Misunderstanding Concerning the “ Wahhabiyyah ” for Allaah has made for everything a reason. The following dialogue, which brought forth a persuasive knowledge-based debate, and a fruitful and guiding discussion, is the reason for my proceeding in writing this treatise.

          In the year 1407H, I was involved in some important business in Mauritania, after which we flew to Senegal, and the flight schedule forced us to stay in the Kingdom of Morocco for six days.

          And during one of these days, I was in the company of one of the teachers of a university there known as Doctor ‘ Abdullaah . And during a sitting, in his library, several discussions took place. Due to his love for the Kingdom, and his attending several conferences there, he posed the following question to me before those present and their number was around twelve shaykhs, from the noble people of the land there:

          He said, “We love the kingdom, and the souls of the Muslims and their hearts go out to it, and between us and you is much affection and mutual understanding, and amazement at what the governors and scholars of the kingdom have put forth of sincere striving, for Islaam and the Muslims, but how much better it would be if you all were to leave the madh-hab of the Wahhaabiyyah, which has split up the Muslims?!”

          So I answered him, “Perhaps you may have some erroneous ideas, taken from the wrong source, but, we would love take up this topic, in the presence of the brothers, for a knowledge-based discussion, to be accompanied by evidences until we come to a meeting of the minds...”

          Then I said, “And since every human is at rest with, and has his heart is comforted by, what the scholars of his own land have written, then, in this debate, I will not go beyond the resources of this library, which is enclosed by these four walls, because as you see I am not carrying a single book, and I did not foresee this debate.

          And so, before we begin, I hope that this debate will be far from stubbornness and partisanship, or presenting of opinions without satisfactory evidence to support it, because seeking the truth is our objective, and compliance with the order of Allaah and the order of His Messenger ( ( صلى الله عليه وسلم ) ) is our goal, and aiding the religion is our hope of hopes.”

          He said, “I agree with you on this, and these noble shaykhs shall be the judges between us.”

          I said, “I am pleased with that, and after relying upon Allaah I await for you to present an introduction to this debate.”

          He said, “Take as an example, that which al- Wanshareesi mentioned in his book al- Mi'yaar volume 11, and it is his statement: al- Lakhami was asked about the people of a land in which the Wahhaabis have built a masjid, what is the ruling of prayer in it?”

          And for general information: this book al- Mi'yaar, is a book which collects the religious verdicts from Maaliki fiqh, it was compiled by Ahmad bin Muhammad al- Wanshareesi, and it is printed in 13 volumes, and it was printed by the Moroccan government, and they distribute copies as donations.

          After the presentation of the question, and bringing forth the mentioned book, volume 11, I responded to him: that the religious verdict regarding this question is correct, and we agree with al- Lakhami in what has been mentioned in his verdict.

          He said, “Then we are agreed about this sect, and the mistake which it is upon, and especially, since the Mufti said: this sect is Khaariji and misguided and disbelieving, may Allaah cut off their remains from the earth, and destruction of the masjid is obligatory, as well as removing them from the lands of the Muslims.”
          http://www.dkh-islam.com/Content/Article.aspx?ATID=21

          Comment


          • #6
            Salafi and Ahle Hadith are same things.

            In India/Pakistan those who oppose Salafi/Ahle Hadith call them Wahabis. There is nothing such as Wahabi. Sheikh Muhammad ibn Abdul Wahab or his follower didn't labeled them selves.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Rasema View Post
              Assalamu Alaykum

              Salafis follow 70% of what madhabs agreed on. The 30% of fiqh they disagreed on is studied by our shaykhs like Bin Baz, Utaymeen etc...

              Someone who follows a madhab is someone who follows that 30% even though there are stronger views than it. The most important thing is that we all follow Athaar aqeedah. If we don't protect our fundamentals, our religion will turn inside out.
              Where did you get this from? The statistics?
              Ibn Mas'ud –(radiallaahu 'anhu) – would advise his students, "If your intention is one of these three, do not seek knowledge: To shame the ignorant, or to argue with the Fuqahaa' (scholars), or to cause people to turn their faces in your direction. Intend with your actions and words that which is with Allaah, for indeed that which is with Allaah shall remain and everything else shall perish".

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Rasema View Post
                Assalamu Alaykum

                Salafis follow 70% of what madhabs agreed on. The 30% of fiqh they disagreed on is studied by our shaykhs like Bin Baz, Utaymeen etc...

                Someone who follows a madhab is someone who follows that 30% even though there are stronger views than it. The most important thing is that we all follow Athaar aqeedah. If we don't protect our fundamentals, our religion will turn inside out.
                asalamu alaikum raseema

                i implore you to try to see things in the correct light. while most of what you said is correct, there are certain problems

                1. the statement "even though there are stronger views than it" is not only incorrect, it does not make sense. Why? the reason WHY there is disagreement to begin with is because there is no "stronger view" rather each person presenting the argument views themselves as the one with the strongest view.

                2. the whole discussion is about fiqh, not about aqeedah

                3. do not be so quick to treat our entire history as a monolithic and perfect reality. Imaam al-Bukharee died in a world where almost the whole Muslim world believed him to be a Jahmi innovator. Imaam Maalik lived in a time where some of the people of the sunnah, some of the greatest Imaams almost made takfeer of him over his doctrine of amal ahlul-medina. Abu Hanifa, one of the greatest Imaams believed in a slight irj'aa.

                so your claim on "scholars of sunnah never differed on what is impermissible to differ on" is a statement that can only have a reality in Disney land, an idea that only spubs could try to produce.

                some of the people of the sunnah amongs the hanbalis had a major problem with the Imaam and Haafidh at-tabari over some creedal aspects. Some of the atharis fell into a slight form of tafweedh.

                we can go on and on. do not be duped into thinking that there is something called "a perfect Imaam". there is no one who is perfect and someone who thinks that someone can be the epitome of what the salaf were has performed their biggest mistake.

                Im just giving you advice to to fall into the erroneous idea that everything was nitro-glycerin perfect with no defect from the people of the sunnah.

                just food for thought

                asalamu alaikum
                ابو نعيمة علي البريكي


                "I have debated with the Ash'aris
                and it has become clear to me that they believe that Allah does not exist"


                May Allah hasten the Muslims back to the path
                that granted victory to them before.


                http://islamthought.wordpress.com/

                http://www.islamic-life.com/forums/

                Comment


                • #9
                  An interesting thing is that one of the websites, while discussing the approach to Hadith, classifies the approach into four:

                  1. The Wahhabi Approach
                  2. The Salafi Approach
                  3. The Salafabi Approach
                  4. The Liberalist Approach

                  The third approach is defined thus:
                  The Salafabi Approach

                  Combining the most extreme tendencies of the Wahhabi and Salafi schools while adding a distinctly militant twist, the Salafabi School as Abou El Fadl labels it,(Khalid Abou El Fadl, 2003, pp. 57-62) or the political or literalist Salafiya according to Tariq Ramadan,(Tariq Ramadan, 2002, pp. 242-3) is no doubt an angry reaction to both Western colonization of the Muslim world in the past few centuries and the moral relativism and laxity seen to accompany globalization in the postmodern period. Infamous media figures such as Osama bin Laden and Ayman Al-Zawahiri epitomize the bellicose vigilantism that distinguishes the practical ideals of the school, which Abou El- Fadl perspicaciously defines as:

                  A supremacist puritanism that compensates for feelings of defeatism, disempowerment, and alienation with a distinct sense of self-righteous arrogance vis-à-vis the nondescript “other”—whether the “other” is the West, non-believers in general, or even Muslim women.(Khalid Abou El Fadl, 2003, p. 58.)

                  The Salafabi methodology is unique in its use of evidences from the Qur’an and Hadith to legitimize preexisting juristic arguments and rulings that are often violent in nature. As such, Salafabi preachers rely primarily on Qur’anic citations, for divine scripture lends itself to open and irrefutable interpretations,though some adherents of the school commit a limited array of Hadith and their implications to memory that are primarily of a political nature. For example, in response to the Islamic narration often attributed to the Prophet Muhammad, “We have returned from the lesser jihad to the greater jihad,” which implies that the struggle against the indulgences of the soul is superior to fighting against the enemies of God, a Salafabi may remind his ideological opponent that this narration is at best a weakly authenticated report, though more likely a forgery. While the objective may stand up to scholarly scrutiny, that a layman has memorized such an esoteric piece of information is evidence of a polemical agenda
                  Na'oodhubillah!!

                  Wonder how they deduced this?!!!
                  'Uthmaan (radhi-yallaahu 'anhu) said:
                  Knowledge is better than wealth; Knowledge protects you and you (have to) protect wealth
                  (al-Khateeb in al-Faqeeh wal-Mutafaqqih - Volume 1, Page 15; Mabaahith fee Ahkaam al-Fatwa - Page 12)

                  Visit: http://ibnzubair.blogspot.com/

                  Jazakallah Khair
                  Abu Abdillah

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Asalaam alaikum warahmatulah wabarakatuh

                    My call to Tawheed


                    by Shaykh Muhammed ibn Abd al Wahhab

                    Shaykh Muhammad ibn ‘Abd al-Wahhaab said, describing himself, was: “I tell you that– praise be to Allah – my belief and my religion, according to which I worship Allah, is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah, which was the way of the imams of the Muslims, such as the four Imams and their followers until the Day of Resurrection. But I explain to people that they must devote their worship sincerely to Allah (ikhlas). I forbid them to call upon the Prophets and the dead among the righteous and others, and from associating them with Allah in any act of worship that should be done for Allah alone, such as offering sacrifices, making vows, putting one’s trust, prostrating and other actions which are due to Allah and in which no one should be associated with Him, not any angel who is close to Him or any Prophet who was sent. This is the Message which was proclaimed by all the Messengers, from the first of them to the last of them, and this is the way of Ahl al-Sunnah wa’l-Jamaa’ah. I hold a high position in my village and people listen to me. Some of the leaders denounced that because it goes against the customs they grew up with. I also obliged those who are under me to perform regular prayer, pay zakaah and fulfil other Islamic duties, and I forbade them to deal with ribaa, drink intoxicants and other kinds of forbidden things. The leaders could not criticize that or find fault with it, because it is something that is liked by the common folk, so they directed their criticism and enmity against that which I enjoin of Tawheed and that which I forbid of shirk, and they confused the common folk by saying that this goes against what everyone is doing, and they caused a great deal of fitnah…” (al-Durar al-Sanniyyah, 1/64-65, 79-80)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Wa Alaykum Salam

                      JazzakAllahu Khayr for your time akhi. I will ask you a couple of questions for the sake of saying things with accuracy in the future.

                      1. the statement "even though there are stronger views than it" is not only incorrect, it does not make sense. Why? the reason WHY there is disagreement to begin with is because there is no "stronger view" rather each person presenting the argument views themselves as the one with the strongest view.
                      Why do you follow the views of recent Salafi scholars rather than following a madhab?
                      Isn't the answer simple and basic thing Dr. Zaik Naik preaches? Why do you put your arms on your chest rather than your stomach? Because of the stronger hadeeths. I am guessing that our recent scholars hold stronger views because they have more information and more authentic hadeeths, no?

                      the whole discussion is about fiqh, not about aqeedah
                      True. The thing is that the deviants associate aqeedah with the madhabs. And you say theyhave slipped which beats us when claiming that they aqreed on their aqeedah and manhaj...

                      I see, they agreed on their aqeedah and manhaj but believed different stuff and made mistakes.

                      do not be so quick to treat our entire history as a monolithic and perfect reality. Imaam al-Bukharee died in a world where almost the whole Muslim world believed him to be a Jahmi innovator. Imaam Maalik lived in a time where some of the people of the sunnah, some of the greatest Imaams almost made takfeer of him over his doctrine of amal ahlul-medina. Abu Hanifa, one of the greatest Imaams believed in a slight irj'aa.
                      What is irj'aa?

                      This is the problem in where I get stuck when apeaking to them. Like imam Nawawi...

                      do not be so quick to treat our entire history as a monolithic and perfect reality.
                      To people such as myself, it is the best to preach the way I do, but accurately. Because if someone else proves us wrong to them, thye won't trust us.

                      I'm sorry, even though you are someone with knowledge, you are wrong because :" The Qur'aan is the Sunna and the Sunna is the Qur'aan and Allah protected the Sunna as He protected the Qur'aan."

                      How? I wish we could only generalize on it.

                      so your claim on "scholars of sunnah never differed on what is impermissible to differ on" is a statement that can only have a reality in Disney land, an idea that only spubs could try to produce.
                      No, SPUB is an accurate site because it quotes scholars only, and classical scholars!

                      It is obvious that you are right about scholars differing.

                      we can go on and on. do not be duped into thinking that there is something called "a perfect Imaam". there is no one who is perfect and someone who thinks that someone can be the epitome of what the salaf were has performed their biggest mistake.
                      Islam is perfect.


                      Thank you.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Bint Nail View Post
                        Where did you get this from? The statistics?
                        Assalmu Alaykum

                        A lecture.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          asalam alaikum


                          sorry, wrong thread.

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