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Ibn 'Umar Regarding Bid'ah

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  • #16
    salam alaykum

    the funny thing is that the Rafida, and just recently lunatic yasir Al habib present us some narrations of Ibn Omar (out of context) as a Hujjah against us (i.e. we do bid3ah), even though it was no one else than of the the Shias of Ali (Abu Dharr the Sahabi radhiyallahu 'anh), who reported from our beloved Prophet (saws) that Salah Al Duha is a SUNNAH.

    http://www.islamawareness.net/Salah/Nafl/duha2.html

    on top of it the same (Duha being Sunnah) was narrated by the SISTER of Ali (ra), Umm Hani (ra).

    I guess both are crypto-nasibis? 7ashaa...

    oh, just to add, since some like to quote blindly from our sources, let's do it their way, here the Imam approves Al Duha:

    narration of `Ali who saw a group of people praying Duha immediately after sunrise and advised them to delay it, saying: "It would be best if they left it until the sun was one or two spear-lengths high for that is Salat al-Awwabin." Ibn Abi Shayba and al-Tabari, cf. Kanz al-`Ummal #23437

    and here Imam no. 2:

    The Prophet also said: "Whoever prays the Fajr prayer then sits in his place of prayer remembering Allah until sunrise, then prays two rak`ats of Duha, Allah shall make him forbidden to the Fire, nor shall it touch him nor consume him." Narrated from al-Hasan ibn `Ali by al-Bayhaqi.

    (just for the case the enemies of the Sunnah claim it to be bid3ah)
    Ibn Sireen رحمه اللهsaid: "this knowledge is a religion so becareful from whom you take your religion".
    إن عقل الأحباش و اخوانهم الرافضة المجوس بلا مكان وزمان, وهو لا داخل الرأس ولا خارجه

    إن المعتزلة مخانيث الفلاسفة والأشعرية مخانيث المعتزلة

    Hanbali says: "We affirm what ALLAH Ta'ala affirms". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "you Mujassim". Ibn Fulan the Sufi: "I am ALLAH". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "How elegant".

    what a load of tosh!

    Comment


    • #17
      "the narrations of affirmation (Abu Dharr, Umm Hani, Ali, Al-Hassan) take precedence over those of negation (Ibn Omar...)"

      "those who know are a proof over those who do not know"

      (Basic Fiqh rulings)
      Ibn Sireen رحمه اللهsaid: "this knowledge is a religion so becareful from whom you take your religion".
      إن عقل الأحباش و اخوانهم الرافضة المجوس بلا مكان وزمان, وهو لا داخل الرأس ولا خارجه

      إن المعتزلة مخانيث الفلاسفة والأشعرية مخانيث المعتزلة

      Hanbali says: "We affirm what ALLAH Ta'ala affirms". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "you Mujassim". Ibn Fulan the Sufi: "I am ALLAH". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "How elegant".

      what a load of tosh!

      Comment


      • #18
        two questions are in my mind though:

        1.
        Bukhari and Muslim in their Sahih collections (and others) narrate that Sayyida A`isha (radiyallahu `anha) stated: "i never saw the Prophet pray the Duha prayer, but i myself always pray it."
        Is this not qat3i? i.e. according to her he never prayed it? For I read that it is said that she meant that he never prayed it in jama3a, regular basis etc. yet she says never.

        I've found one explenation:

        This is further confirmed by the statement of `Urwa that "`A'isha would say that the Messenger of Allah did not pray Duha but she herself prayed it, and she would say that the Messenger of Allah left out many good deeds lest people took them as their regular practice, then they would be imposed as fard." Narrated by al-Bukhari and Muslim, Abu Dawud, Malik in his Muwatta', Ahmad, and others. The Ulema explained that this fear no longer applies after the time of the Prophet and it should be prayed on a regular basis as long as people pray it individually and understand its status as that of desirability, not obligation.
        But can this be said in regards to Aisha's (ra) narration in Al Sahih? Since she says she has NEVER seen him pray (Al DUha), so it can't be (acc. to her) one of the "many good deeds the Messenger (saws) once USED to do..."

        right?

        وروى البخاري أيضاً في (صحيحة ج2 ـ 44 و 54, ومسلم ج2 ـ 156) عن عائشة أنها قالت: ((ما رأيت رسول الله (ص) يصلي سبحة الضحى قط وإني لأسبحها


        Volume 2, Book 21, Number 273:

        Narrated 'Aisha:

        I never saw the Prophet offering the Duha prayer but I always offer it.



        qat? "at all" right? how do we explain this one?
        Ibn Sireen رحمه اللهsaid: "this knowledge is a religion so becareful from whom you take your religion".
        إن عقل الأحباش و اخوانهم الرافضة المجوس بلا مكان وزمان, وهو لا داخل الرأس ولا خارجه

        إن المعتزلة مخانيث الفلاسفة والأشعرية مخانيث المعتزلة

        Hanbali says: "We affirm what ALLAH Ta'ala affirms". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "you Mujassim". Ibn Fulan the Sufi: "I am ALLAH". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "How elegant".

        what a load of tosh!

        Comment


        • #19
          للرفع please if anyone can answer my last questions, baarkallah feekum.
          Ibn Sireen رحمه اللهsaid: "this knowledge is a religion so becareful from whom you take your religion".
          إن عقل الأحباش و اخوانهم الرافضة المجوس بلا مكان وزمان, وهو لا داخل الرأس ولا خارجه

          إن المعتزلة مخانيث الفلاسفة والأشعرية مخانيث المعتزلة

          Hanbali says: "We affirm what ALLAH Ta'ala affirms". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "you Mujassim". Ibn Fulan the Sufi: "I am ALLAH". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "How elegant".

          what a load of tosh!

          Comment


          • #20
            Wa Alaikum Assalam brother,

            The hadeeth of Aisha (r) says that she never saw him pray Duha. This does not mean that he never prayed it, but that he never prayed it while with her. There are other hadeeths where the prophet (pbuh) did pray Duha when he missed his Qiyam layl prayer.

            So, the practice of the prophet (pbuh) was that he rarely prayed it and generally when linked to not praying the Qiyam Layl of the previous night.

            Some may conclude that if a person does not pray Qiyam Layl (for whatever reason) then it is a good practice to pray Duha but it is more in line with the practice of the prophet (pbuh) to pray Qiyam Layl.

            Hussein

            Comment


            • #21
              Mashaallah! very true! she didn't say he never prayd it, she said she NEVER SAW HIM PRAY.
              Ibn Sireen رحمه اللهsaid: "this knowledge is a religion so becareful from whom you take your religion".
              إن عقل الأحباش و اخوانهم الرافضة المجوس بلا مكان وزمان, وهو لا داخل الرأس ولا خارجه

              إن المعتزلة مخانيث الفلاسفة والأشعرية مخانيث المعتزلة

              Hanbali says: "We affirm what ALLAH Ta'ala affirms". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "you Mujassim". Ibn Fulan the Sufi: "I am ALLAH". Jahmi-Rafidi-Sufi-Ash'ari: "How elegant".

              what a load of tosh!

              Comment


              • #22
                The argument regarding Ibn Umar and salatul duha has been addressed sufficiently by:

                - عبد الله رمضان موسى on pages 487-492 of his book هدم أصول أهل البدعة

                - سعيد بن ناصر الغامدي on volume 1, pages 425-428 of his book حقيقة البدعة وأحكامها
                www.call-to-monotheism.com

                Comment


                • #23
                  Salam alayqum,

                  Brother Bassam, what is the gist of counter argument? My Arabic is limited, if you could summarize it in a paragraph it would be great.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by SaifAlIslam View Post
                    Salam alayqum,

                    Brother Bassam, what is the gist of counter argument? My Arabic is limited, if you could summarize it in a paragraph it would be great.
                    The gist is that Ibn Umar, like his father, used the term in the linguistic sense.

                    First, the author mentions narrations from Ibn Umar. They clearly show he is against bid'ah.

                    One of them is where he says: Every bid'ah is misguidance even if people consider it to be good.

                    [This establishes that Ibn Umar could not be supporting a bid'ah when he is saying it is misguidance]


                    Then the author says:

                    The meaning that Ibn Umar indented here is the same which his father intended at the time of Taraawiih.

                    Umar knew that the people had prayed the Taraawiih prayer with the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam).

                    He knew it was from the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) but he (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) did not remain persistent in performing it with the Companions in congregation.

                    The Companions remaining persistent on praying them in congregation was something new after he (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) passed away. It is, therefore, named Bid'ah in the language.

                    Likewise Ibn Umar knew that the Duha prayer was from the Sunnah. But Ibn Umar thought the Prophet did not pray it. Therefore, it is allowed to say, in the language, bid'ah to the first one who initiates the Sunnah of praying it.

                    This is the linguistic meaning and not the legislative meaning.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      There is a narration in Sahih al-Bukhaari. It shows that Ibn Umar did not think the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) prayed Duha. Here it is

                      Narrated Muwarriq:

                      I asked Ibn `Umar "Do you offer the Duha prayer?" He replied in the negative. I further asked, "Did `Umar use to pray it?" He (Ibn `Umar) replied in the negative. I again asked, "Did Abu Bakr use to pray it?" He replied in the negative. I again asked, "Did the Prophet (ﷺ) use to pray it?" Ibn `Umar replied, "I don't think he did."

                      [Sahih al-Bukhaari Hadith No. 1175]


                      Ibn Umar considered the Duha prayer al-Sunnah al-Qawliyyah which was not practically undertaken until after the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) passed away.

                      Comment

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