[Sunnipress]

Originally Posted by Abu Zahra

What i find lacking in Abuz Zubairs points is that he hasn't produced any quotes to prove his claims. Can someone show us where does Ibn Asakr say that Ashari's were a minority in his day when the Ahwazi he is attacking died many years before him? If the Ashaira are the minority in every century after al-Salaf then what proof and names can one produce from the Tabaqat of the 4 schools listing the point that most were actually anti-Asha'ri and pure Sunni/Salafee like Ibn Taymiyya/Ibn al Qayyim etc instead in every century till the days of say Shaykh Ibn Abdal Wahhab?

Evidence Which Could Be Useful to Determine the Ash'arite Spread in History

Shaykh al-Islam Abdallah al-Ansari (d.481), the Hanbalite, says in his book Damm al-Kalâm wa-Ahlihi (The Censure of Specultaive Theology and its People):

"I heard al-Hasan b. Abi Usama al-Makki say: I heard my father say:

May Allah Curse Abu Dharr! For he was the first one who carried al-Kalâm to the Harâm, and the first one who spread it among the Maghrebians!"

[Abu Isma'il Abdallah al-Ansari al-Harawi, Damm al-Kalam wa-Ahlih 5:412 no.1316]

In the footnote the Hafidh al-Dhahabi is quoted from al-Siyar A'lam al-Nubala' on Abu Dharr al-Harawi:

"He took Kalâm and Ra'y of Abu 'l-Hasan [al-Ash'ari] from the Qâdi Abu Bakr b. al-Tayyib [al-Baqillani] and spread it to Makkah, and from him the Maghrabians carried it to al-Maghrib and al-Andalus.."

[Refer to the Siyar, vol.17 p.557]

Abu'l-Hasan al-Karaji (458-532) is Muhammad b. Abd al-Malik b. Umar b. Muhammad al-Makki, the Shafi'ite jurisprudent. He was born in 458 and heard Hadith from Makki b. 'Illân al-Karaji, Abu'l-Qasim al-Razzâz, Abu 'Ali Muhammad b. Sa'id b. Nabhân al-Kâtib, Ábu'l-Hasan b. al-'Allâf and others, and he studied Fiqh funder Abu Mansur al-Isbahani. Ibn al-Sam'ani, Abu Musa al-Madini and others related from him. He was an Imam, pious and authority in Tafsir, Hadith and the Shafi'ite Madhhab of Fiqh. He died in 532, rahimahullah.

Abu'l-Hasan al-Karaji stated:

"The Shafi'ite Imams have not ceased disdaining and detesting that they should be ascribed to al-Ashari. They disassociate themselves from that which al-Ash'ari built his Madhhab upon. They forbid their associates and beloved ones from approaching it, as I have heard from a number of the Shaykhs and Imams.

From them is the Hafidh al-Mu'tamin b. Ahmad b. 'Ali al-Sâji, all saying: We've heard from a community of trustworthy Shaykhs, saying:

The Shaykh Abu Hamid Ahmad b. Abi Tahir al-Isfara'ini, Imam of the A'immah, the one whose knowledge and students spread over the earth, when he sought the Friday Prayer from a part of al-Karkh to the Jami' of al-Mansûr, he would enter the Ribat known by al-Rûzi, next to the Jami'. And he would accept whom attends and say:

'Be witnesses of me that the Qur'an is Allah's Speech, uncreated, just as Ahmad b. Hanbal said; not as al-Baqillani says it!'

That recurred much from him at Friday Prayers. Consequently he was spoken to concerning that, so he answered:

'Until it is spread among the [general] people and among the people of righteousness, and it is rumored in the lands: I am free of that which they are upon - i.e. the Ash'arites - and free of the Madhhab of Abu Bakr al-Baqillani. For a group of foreign aspiring jurists enter upon al-Baqillani in secret, covertly! They read up to him, then they are attracted by his Madhhab. So when they return to their lands they show their innovation, without doubt. So the one who assumes will think that they learned it from me and that I've said it?! But I am free of al-Baqillani's Madhhab and creed!'"

Abu'l-Hasan al-Karaji said also:

"I heard my Shaykh, the Imam Abu Mansur the Jurist from Isfahan say: I heard our Shaykh, the Imam Abu Bakr al-Râdhaqâni say:

I was in the class of the Shaykh Abu Hamid al-Isfara'ini and he was prohibiting his associates from Kalâm and from entering upon al-Baqillani. Consequently it reached him that a small group of students of his entered upon him, undercover, to study Kalâm. He suspected that I was with them and from them - and he mentioned the story in the end: The Shaykh Abu Hamid said to me:

'O my son! It reached me that you entered upon this man, i.e. al-Baqillani. O you and he! He is an innovator! He calls people to misguidance! And if [you do] not [heed my warning], then do not attend my assembly.'

I said: I seek refuge with Allah from what is said! And seek repentance from Him. And be witnesses of me that I do not enter upon him!'"

Abu'l-Hasan al-Karaji said also:

"I heard the jurist Abu Mansur Sa'd b. 'Ali al-'Ijli say: I heard a part of the Shaykhs and Imams of Baghdad - I think the Shaykh Abu Ishaq al-Shirazi is one of them - say:

'Abu Bakr al-Baqillani used to exit the public bath veiled, afraid of the Shaykh Abu Hamid al-Isfara'ini.'"
al-Karaji again:

"I've been informed by a group of trustworthy scholars through writing - from them the Qadi Abu Mansur al-Ya'qubi - on the authority of the Imam Abdallah b. Muhammad b. 'Ali, who said: I heard Abd al-Rahman b. Muhammad b. al-Husayn say: I've found Abu Hamid al-Isfara'ini, Abu al-Tayyib al-Su'luki, Abu Bakr al-Qaffâl al-Marwazi and Abu Mansur al-Hakim upon a repudiation of Kalâm and its people.."

al-Karaji said:

"The severity of the Shaikh against the Ahl al-Kalâm is well known, to the point that he even made a distinction between the principles of the jurisprudence (usul fiqh) of al-Shafi'i and the principles (usul) of al-Ash'ari. Notes upon this were added by Abu Bakr al-Râdhaqâni and it is with me. He was followed in this by the Shaikh Abu Ishaq al-Shirazi in his two books: al-Luma' and al-Tabsirah. To the extent that if a saying of al-Ash'ari agreed with one view from our companions he made distinction and said: 'It is the saying of some of our associates, and the Ash'ariyyah said it too', and he did not include them amongst the companions of al-Shafi'i. They disdained and avoided them and their Madhhab in the principles of jurisprudence (usul al-fiqh), not to mention with regard to the principles of the religion (usul al-din)!"

al-Karaji said:

"Whoever says: 'I'm a Shafi'ite in jurisprudence and Ash'arite in creed', we say to him, 'This is from the things that are contradictory, nay rather from the things that are rejected, whence al-Shafi'i was not an Ash'arite in creed'!"

[Source: refer to Ibn Taymiyyah, al-Tis'iniyyah and Dar' al-Ta'arrud; al-Ansari, Damm al-Kalâm wa-Ahlih; Ibn al-Mabrid, Jam' al-Juyush and others]