World and universe created for Prophet [s] ?

[Hanbali]

I've already seen the fatwa from Islam-Qa that refutes the claim that the world and universe was created for the Prophet [s]. My question though is: did Ibn Hajar really say this here:

Ibn Hajar comments:

"To my opinion, it probably refers to the Ahlul-Bayt, since Allah created this world for the sake of the Prophet, and has made its existence conditional to the existence of his Ahlul-Bayt for they have certain virtues in common with the Prophet as Fakhr al-Razi mentioned, and because the Messenger of Allah said on their virtue that: "O Allah! They are from me and I am from them" since they are a part of him as their mother, Fatimah, was a part of him. Thus they (Ahlul-Bayt) are also amnesty for the earth (similar to what the above verse establishes for the Prophet himself). "

Sunni reference: al-Sawa'iq al-Muhriqah, by Ibn Hajar, Ch. 11, section 1, p234

This was on a Shia website.

[Acid]

asalam o alaikum

I would request any one who know to shed some light on this.

Thank you.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Acid

asalam o alaikum

I would request any one who know to shed some light on this.

Thank you.

Me too!!!!!!!!

[Farid Alkhajah]

Ehh... for all this is worth, the author of Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqa is Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami, and not Ameerul Mu'mineen fil hadith Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalaani.

[Bassam Zawadi]

Scholars have declared this hadith to be true, but the meaning to be sound depending on how you interpret it.

Shaykh ibn Taymiyyah said in his Majmu Al Fataawa:

ويمكن أن يفسر بوجه صحيح كقوله. (سخر لكم ما في السماوات وما في الأرض)
وقوله: (وسخر لكم الفلك لتجري في البحر بأمره وسخر لكم الأنهار وسخر لكم
الشمس والقمر دائبين وسخر لكم الليل والنهار وآتاكم من كل ما سألتموه وإن تعدوا
نعمة الله لا تحصوها) وأمثال ذلك من الآيات التي يبين فيها أنه خلق المخلوقات لبني آدم
ومعلوم أن لله فيها حكما عظيمة غير ذلك [ص: 97 ] وأعظم من ذلك ولكن يبين لبني آدم ما
فيها من المنفعة وما أسبغ عليهم من النعمة.
فإذا قيل: فعل كذا لكذا لم يقتض أن لا يكون فيه حكمة أخرى. وكذلك قول القائل: لولا
كذا ما خلق كذا لا يقتضي أن لا يكون فيه حكم أخرى عظيمة بل يقتضي إذا كان أفضل
صالحي بني آدم محمد وكانت خلقته غاية مطلوبة وحكمة بالغة مقصودة [أعظم] من غيره
صار تمام الخلق ونهاية الكمال حصل بمحمد صلى اله عليه وسلم.
والله خلق السموات والأرض وما بينهما في ستة أيام وكان آخر الخلق يوم الجمعة وفيه خلق
آدم وهو آخر ما خلق خلق يوم الجمعة بعد العصر في آخر يوم الجمعة. وسيد ولد آدم هو
محمد صلى اله عليه وسلم - آدم فمن دونه تحت لوائه - قال صلى اله عليه وسلم (إني عند الله لمكتوب خاتم النبيين وإن
آدم لمنجدل في طينته) أي كتبت نبوتي وأظهرت لما خلق آدم قبل نفخ الروح فيه كما
يكتب الله رزق العبد وأجله وعمله وشقي أو سعيد إذا خلق الجنين قبل نفخ الروح فيه.
فإذا كان الإنسان هو خاتم المخلوقات وآخرها [ص: 98 ] وهو الجامع لما فيها وفاضله هو فاضل
المخلوقات مطلقا ومحمد إنسان هذا العين، وقطب هذه الرحى وأقسام هذا الجمع كان كأنها
غاية الغايات في المخلوقات فما ينكر أن يقال: إنه لأجله خلقت جميعها وإنه لولاه لما خلقت
فإذا فسر هذا الكلام ونحوه بما يدل عليه الكتاب والسنة قبل ذلك.

Translation:


“And it is possible to interpret [it] with a sound meaning, like His statement ([Allah ] has made what is in the heavens and what is in the earth subservient to you), and His statement (And [He] has made the ships subservient to you, that they might run their course in the sea by His command, and He has made the rivers subservient to you. And He has made subservient to you the sun and the moon pursuing their courses, and He has made subservient to you the night and the day. And He gives you of all that you ask Him; and if you count Allah ’s favors, you will not be able to number them) as well as other such verses that make it clear that [Allah ] created all of creation for the sake of the children of Adam. It is well known that Allah has a great authority over it besides [what we have mentioned about] it and a vastly greater [one], but He [has stated this to] let the children of Adam know what is in it for their benefit, and how perfect are His blessings upon them.

“…Since the best of the righteous ones from the children of Adam {A} is Muhammad {S}, creating him was a desirable end of deep-seated purposeful wisdom, more so than for anyone else, and hence the completion of creation and the fulfilment of perfection was attained with Muhammad…

“…The best of the children of Adam is Muhammad {S} - Adam and his children being under his banner. He {S} said: “Truly, I was written as the Seal of the Prophets with Allah , when Adam was being kneaded in his clay”, that is, my prophethood was decreed and manifested when Adam was created before the breathing of the Spirit into him, just as Allah decrees the sustenance, lifespan, deeds and misery or happiness of the person, when He creates the embryo [but] before the breathing of the spirit in it.

“Since man is the seal and last of all creation, and its microcosm, and since the best of man is thus the best of all creation absolutely, then Muhammad - being the pupil of the eye, the axis of the mill, and the distributor to the collective - is as it were the ultimate purpose from amongst all the purposes of creation. Thus it cannot be rejected if it is said “Due to him all of this was created”, or that “Were it not for him, all this would not have been created”. So if this statement [i.e. the fabricated report] and others like it are thus explained according to what the Book and the Sunna indicate, it is acceptable.

[Um Abdullah M.]

Originally Posted by Farid Alkhajah

Ehh... for all this is worth, the author of Al-Sawa'iq Al-Muhriqa is Ibn Hajar Al-Haytami, and not Ameerul Mu'mineen fil hadith Ibn Hajar Al-Asqalaani.

Rafidah and some sufis do that, they would say "Ibn Hajar" only, when quoting Ibn Hajar al Haytami, decieving people.

[Farid Alkhajah]

Rafidah and some sufis do that, they would say "Ibn Hajar" only, when quoting Ibn Hajar al Haytami, decieving people.

Mmm... I guess they do.

Any thoughts on what Bassam quoted by the way? I honestly don't think what Ibn Hajar states fits into Ibn Taymiyah's saying of "So if this statement [i.e. the fabricated report] and others like it are thus explained according to what the Book and the Sunna indicate, it is acceptable." Especially when we look at "and has made its existence conditional to the existence of his Ahlul-Bayt."

"O Allah! They are from me and I am from them" doesn't seem to be sufficient evidence to believe in this. I mean, there are others that fall into this, namely Julaibeeb (raa).

أن النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم كان في مغزى له . فأفاء الله عليه . فقال لأصحابه " هل تفقدون من أحد ؟ " قالوا : نعم . فلانا وفلانا وفلانا . ثم قال " هل تفقدون من أحد ؟ " قالوا : نعم . فلانا وفلانا وفلانا . ثم قال " هل تفقدون من أحد ؟ " قالوا : لا . قال " لكني أفقد جلبيبا . فاطلبوه " فطلب في القتلى . فوجدوه إلى جنب سبعة قد قتلهم . ثم قتلوه . فأتى النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم فوقف عليه . فقال " قتل سبعة . ثم قتلوه . هذا مني وأنا منه . هذا مني وأنا منه " قال فوضعه على ساعديه . ليس له إلا ساعدا النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم . قال فحفر له ووضع في قبره . ولم يذكر غسلا .

Saheeh Muslim.

[Hanbali]

I don't get Shaykh al-islam's point. The fact is that all of this was created for us, so that we give thanks to Allah, so yes, the earth and the heavens were created subservient to us, so that we may then give thanks to Allah [swt] and worship Him!

[Bassam Zawadi]

I don't get Shaykh al-islam's point. The fact is that all of this was created for us, so that we give thanks to Allah, so yes, the earth and the heavens were created subservient to us, so that we may then give thanks to Allah [swt] and worship Him!

yeah, but all of this comes under the notion that this was created for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). We give thanks to Allah by being Muslim, but that comes under the fact that Prophet Muhammad was created, for he is the Prophet of Islam.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Bassam Zawadi

yeah, but all of this comes under the notion that this was created for the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him).

This is a false concept, as stated by Shaykh Ibn Baz. Doesn't matter what any scholar said. Wallahu Aalim.

[Acid]

Originally Posted by Hanbali

This is a false concept, as stated by Shaykh Ibn Baz. Doesn't matter what any scholar said. Wallahu Aalim.

It doesnt make sense to me either. However I would be interested to know what Shaykh ul Islam really meant by saying that.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Acid

It doesnt make sense to me either. However I would be interested to know what Shaykh ul Islam really meant by saying that.

Yeah me too, although we just have to accept the idea that he can be wrong and that we don't do taqleed of him.

[Bassam Zawadi]

What Shaykh Al Islam meant is simple by just reading his fatwa. He rejected the hadeeth's authenticity, but he said that if a particular interpretation was given to it then the meaning is sound. That is all.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Bassam Zawadi

What Shaykh Al Islam meant is simple by just reading his fatwa. He rejected the hadeeth's authenticity, but he said that if a particular interpretation was given to it then the meaning is sound. That is all.

Yes, but he erred. Shaykh Ibn Baz rejected not only the hadeeth but the meaning of the hadeeth. (I only bring up the name of Shaykh Ibn Baz since people won't accept it if I say it, but it's common sense that this is a case of exaggeration. As Al-Shaykh Al-Islam Ibn Abdul Wahhab said: I would throw all the scholars I love and respect to the wall if it conflicted with the truth from the Quran and Sunnah.)

It's just postulation and we have no right to postulate on this matter. If Allah [swt] created the whole universe for the Prophet [s], then why didn't He mention this in the Quran? Or why didn't the Prophet [s] say this?

I'm very surprised Shaykh al-Islam Ibn Taymiyyah [r] said this, because he even forbade people from discussing which language the people speak in Paradise...he forbade this since it's all conjecture. Well, what could be greater conjecture than Allah [swt] creating the universe for the Prophet [s]?

Shaykh Ibn Baz [r] said:

The answer is that this was transmitted from the words of some of the common people who have no understanding. Some people say that the world was created for the sake of Muhammad (peace and blessings of Allah (SWT) be upon him) and were it not for Muhammad the world would not have been created and mankind would not have been created. This is false and has no basis, and these are corrupt words.

Allah (SWT) created the world so that He would be known and worshiped. He created the world and He created mankind so that His names and attributes, His power and knowledge, would be known and so that He alone would be worshiped with no partner or associate, and so that He would be obeyed—not for the sake of Muhammad or for the sake of Nuh or Moosa or Eesa or any other Prophet. Rather Allah (SWT) created the universe so that He alone would be worshiped, with no partner or associate.

(Fatawa Noor ‘ala al-Darb, 46)

[Bassam Zawadi]

Bro Hanbali, your taking this topic a bit too seriously. Let me break it down for you:

- Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah did not accept the hadith

- Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah saw that many people around him believed in it.

- Sheikh Ibn Taymiyyah said that if you understand the narration to imply... so and so.... then fine no problem for the meaning would be saheeh that way. If you understood it in another way then that is wrong.

Full stop. No need to make a big deal out of this. Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah didn't make a mistake, on the contrary he is saying that the isnaad is false but the meaning could be true if it is interpreted in a certain way. That is all.

So unless you believe that even the interpretation that Shaykh ibn Taymiyyah gave is false, then there is nothing to say he is wrong in.


Shaykh bin Baz said:

Allah (SWT) created the world so that He would be known and worshiped. He created the world and He created mankind so that His names and attributes, His power and knowledge, would be known and so that He alone would be worshiped with no partner or associate, and so that He would be obeyed

And that is in harmony with what Ibn Taymiyyah said, for he interpreted it to possibly mean that since Prophet Muhammad is the Prophet of Islam to which people come to know and worship Allah (in conjunction with what Ibn Baaz said) then yes the universe was created for the Prophet only if it is understood in this manner

Your failing to understand Shaykh Ibn Taymiyyah's point, thats all.

The corrupted understanding of the hadeeth is the way sufis understand it to idolize and elevate the status of the Prophet to an uncalled for level.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Bassam Zawadi

Bro Hanbali, your taking this topic a bit too seriously. Let me break it down for you:

Bassam, no reason to break anything down for me. I already understand the issue 100%.

The fact is that we should not say this phrase at all, i.e. "Were it not for Muhammad [s], the universe would not be created", etc., since there is no proof for that. I have talked to a Mufi about this issue, and he says that he knows that some scholars said the meaning could be sahih, but this is not correct and we should abstain from making any such statements. Wallahu Aalim.

You are free to reconcile Shaykh al-Islam's opinion. I disagree with you.

I do, however, understand the difference between what Shaykh al-Islam said and what the extremist Sufis say. Nonetheless, I believe the most correct opinion is to simply deny that the universe was created for Prophet Muhammad [s] and to simply leave it at that. Wallahu Aalim.

[Hanbali]

Ustadh Yasir Qadhi also rejected the hadeeth AND its meaning. This is found in his book "Du`a: Weapon of the Believer".

[Bassam Zawadi]

One question for you:

Do you reject the meaning of Shaykh Al Islam's interpretation?

If the answer is yes, then explain why.

If the answer is no, then there is nothing wrong with accepting the statement if that is the interpretation given to it.

Sheikh Al Islam didn't say that we should go around saying the statement. The only thing that he said was that a sahih meaning could be given to it. So unless you can show that the interpretation that he gave to it has a wrong meaning, you are not pointing out any fault from his part.

[Hanbali]

Originally Posted by Bassam Zawadi

“Since man is the seal and last of all creation, and its microcosm, and since the best of man is thus the best of all creation absolutely, then Muhammad - being the pupil of the eye, the axis of the mill, and the distributor to the collective - is as it were the ultimate purpose from amongst all the purposes of creation. Thus it cannot be rejected if it is said “Due to him all of this was created”, or that “Were it not for him, all this would not have been created”. So if this statement [i.e. the fabricated report] and others like it are thus explained according to what the Book and the Sunna indicate, it is acceptable.

Bro Bassam, I don't take issue with the red part as much as the blue part. It is a huge jump to say that the world would NOT have been created had it not been for the Prophet [s].

From where was this monumental jump made?

How do we know that Allah [swt] wouldn't have created any of this but for Prophet Muhammad [s]?

If a King makes a city for his servants, and his favorite servant happens to also live in this city, you might be able to say that he created all of this (the city) for his favorite servant (although even this is questionable), but you could NOT at all claim that the King wouldn't have made the city if not for his favorite servant. He would still make it for his second favorite servant, wouldn't he?

So I disagree with Shaykh al-Islam: the statement "were it not for..." can be categorically rejected as mere speculation, and there is no room for speculation in such matters. Wallahu Aalim.

Fi Aman Allah

[A7adun-A7ad]

Originally Posted by Bassam

but the meaning to be sound

What is the arabic word for "sound" akhi ?