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  #1  
Old 02-18-2012, 09:19 AM
Shabbab Shabbab is offline
 
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Default Ziyadut Al Thiqa

As Salaam Alaykum

I know there are other threads on the topic of where to place the hands in salah but I have a specifc question about a particular chain.

I am of the position that the matter is flexible and one can choose where to place his hands. However where I pray there are a few people who are adamant it is sunnah to place them on the chest.
They quote a hadith from Musnad Ahmad, which they say is authentic. The chain being Yahya bin Saeed - Sufyan at Thawri - Simaak bin Harb - Qubaysah bin Hulb....they say this chain is sound.

I would like to know if this is the case.
If not then who said its weak and why.

Jazakhallah Khayr
  #2  
Old 02-19-2012, 03:10 PM
Shabbab Shabbab is offline
 
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As salaam alaykum

Please if someone could advise me regarding the above chain I would really appreciate it

Jazakhallah khayr.
  #3  
Old 02-20-2012, 07:43 AM
rizwan rizwan is offline
 
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Salaam Alaikum. With Regards to Imam Ahmed Position then he has two narrations on where to place the hands. One is below the chest and one below the Navel and as Brother Abu Bakr said he disliked that the hands be placed on the chest.
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Their will come leaders who will not follow my guidance and not follow my Sunnah. Their will be among them men who will have hearts of devils in the bodies of humans. He (the companion of the prophet) asked, "what shall I do, O messenger of Allah, if I reach that?" He replied, "you should hear and obey the ruler even if he flogs your back and takes your wealth, then still hear and obey."
(Saheeh Muslim)

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  #4  
Old 02-20-2012, 08:43 AM
abunaim abunaim is offline
 
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Ibn Qayyim when describing the salaah of the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi was sallam) in his book Al-Salaah wa Hukm Taarikiha mentioned that the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi was sallam) placed his hands on his chest.

Can someone check what other ulema as Qastallani mentioned in al Mawahibul Laduniyya, al Fayruzubadi in Sifr us Sada or others in similar works.
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  #5  
Old 02-20-2012, 09:53 AM
Abdul-Qayyum Abdul-Qayyum is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abunaim View Post
Ibn Qayyim when describing the salaah of the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi was sallam) in his book Al-Salaah wa Hukm Taarikiha mentioned that the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi was sallam) placed his hands on his chest.
But in Zad al-Ma'ad he said there is nothing authentic reported about where he used to place them.
  #6  
Old 02-20-2012, 10:50 AM
rizwan rizwan is offline
 
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which book was written first, as he scholars do change their views sometimes in books they write later in life.
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Their will come leaders who will not follow my guidance and not follow my Sunnah. Their will be among them men who will have hearts of devils in the bodies of humans. He (the companion of the prophet) asked, "what shall I do, O messenger of Allah, if I reach that?" He replied, "you should hear and obey the ruler even if he flogs your back and takes your wealth, then still hear and obey."
(Saheeh Muslim)

HANBALI FIQH MOVEMENT
  #7  
Old 02-20-2012, 11:39 AM
teek_taak teek_taak is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abu Bakr b. Nasir View Post
In any case, as far as I know, there is no authentic report from any of the Fuqaha of the Salaf adopting the position of placing hands on the chest. In fact, Imam Ahmad disliked it.
soz for my ignorance but wen we say chest do we mean anythng above the navel?
  #8  
Old 02-20-2012, 12:02 PM
abunaim abunaim is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Abdul-Qayyum View Post
But in Zad al-Ma'ad he said there is nothing authentic reported about where he used to place them.
Can you provide the arabic text for that ? Because i have seen in a translation that he (Ibn Qayyim) only says: ''Then the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi was sallam) would put his right hand on his left hand and would read one of these supplications...'' without mentioning that there nothing authentic reported about where to place them.
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  #9  
Old 02-20-2012, 01:13 PM
abu musayyad abu musayyad is offline
 
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Isn't Imam Shafie رحمه الله of the opinion that the hands be placed on the chest? correct me if i'm wrong.
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The Prophet صلى الله عليه وسلم said:
Verily,Allaah veils the tawbah from every innovator until he leaves his innovation'' [As Sunnah#37 and Shaykh Al Albaani رحمه الله said, Saheeh ]
Shaykh al Islam Ibn Taymiyyah رحمه الله commented,'' This indicates that the innovator will not repent from his Bid'ah,because he thinks that he is rightly guided.''
[ Majmu al Fataawa 11/685]
  #10  
Old 02-21-2012, 05:32 AM
Abdul-Qayyum Abdul-Qayyum is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abunaim View Post
Can you provide the arabic text for that ? Because i have seen in a translation that he (Ibn Qayyim) only says: ''Then the Prophet (sallAllahu alayhi was sallam) would put his right hand on his left hand and would read one of these supplications...'' without mentioning that there nothing authentic reported about where to place them.
No, since I'm just reporting from a translation. What is possible is that that whole section was Shaikh Muhammad bin Abdul Wahhab's interpolation. I thought only the recommendation to place them below the navel was from him, but maybe that part was too, Allahu alim.

Check the Mukhtasar he drew up.
  #11  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:10 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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You are a layman because:

1) you seem to be surprised that you are a layman!!

2) you are really a layman

3) the way you quote and write is simply a layman way.

4) you felt insulted now because I wrote the above

I will delete most of the posts in this thread later tomorrow inshallah because it hurts the eyes and I do not want the Mashaykh to waste their time laughing at what they may read here.

There is nothing much I despise is when I see laypeople try to act as if they are from the people of knowledge. That is being said, I ask Allah to forgive you brother Abu Bakr for you helped witout being aware the brother to end up having a feeling he should not never had. Now, it is time for everyone to wear their real shoes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 56Abdullah View Post
Well, dear Shaykh; just questioning for evidence makes me a layman?
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If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.

Last edited by Ayman bin khaled; 04-16-2012 at 05:45 PM.
  #12  
Old 04-16-2012, 04:19 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shabbab View Post
where I pray there are a few people who are adamant it is sunnah to place them on the chest.
This is because they misunderstood the statement of scholars who said to place hands on the chest.

To make it simple for you there is not even one single authentic connected hadeeth raised to the Prophet mention where the hands to be placed. Scholars of Fiqh method to conclude a ruling is different to the way of scholars of the science of Hadeeth.

Dp not busy yourself with such issues that bring no one any benefit.
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Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
  #13  
Old 04-16-2012, 05:43 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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Yes but he did not mean upper chest. He was referring to the area over the navel as known in the Madhab.


Quote:
Originally Posted by abu musayyad View Post
Isn't Imam Shafie رحمه الله of the opinion that the hands be placed on the chest? correct me if i'm wrong.
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
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