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  #1  
Old 05-20-2012, 12:51 PM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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Default Niqab

I know there are a ton of posts regarding niqab but I have failed to find what I am looking for.

I have yet to find the sources of the numerous 'ulema, that state the niqab is NOT wajib. Does anyone have sources to this (other than Sh. Albani's work)?
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  #2  
Old 05-20-2012, 01:26 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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This is the view of the three Madhabs and many of the Hanbali scholars. If you search more you will find. If you could not, try Islamqa.com or Islamweb.net
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  #3  
Old 05-20-2012, 07:00 PM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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Sh. Ayman I'm looking for sources. The scholars who stated its not wajib and it's sources. I can't seem to find that on Islamqa or Islamweb.
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  #4  
Old 05-20-2012, 07:12 PM
Yusuf Khan Yusuf Khan is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad ibn Philip View Post
Sh. Ayman I'm looking for sources. The scholars who stated its not wajib and it's sources. I can't seem to find that on Islamqa or Islamweb.
This may help:

Is Wearing the Niqab Obligatory for Women?
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  #5  
Old 05-20-2012, 07:23 PM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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Br. Yusuf jazakAllaah khayr...however I'm reading some of it and I'm a bit confused. From my understanding, Malik, a'Shafi'ee, and Ahmad all said the face is awrah and should be covered...yet in the website Suhaib Webb says

Imām Nawawī mentions in his Majmūʿ, in presenting the various scholarly opinions concerning the ʿawra that

the ʿawra of a free woman is all of her body except her face and hands, and is the position of Shāfiʿī, Mālik, Abū Ḥanīfa, Awzāʿī, Abū Thawr, and several others, and is one of the [positions] narrated from Aḥmad. Abū Ḥanīfa, Thawrī, and Muzanī also say that the feet are not part of the ʿawra. Aḥmad says [elsewhere, that her ʿawra is] her entire body except her face.


and he mentions a statement from ibn Qudaamah that confused me.


The Ḥanbalī school’s viewpoint:

In the Ḥanbalī school, we find Ibn Qudāma stating in the Mughnī that,

There is no disagreement within the school that it is permissible for a woman to show her face in prayer, and that she should not show any more than her face and hands; and concerning the hands there are two narrations. The people of knowledge have differed [on these issues], but most of them agree that a woman may pray baring her face, and most of the people of knowledge agree that a free woman should cover her head when she prays, and that if she has prayed with all of her head uncovered, that she should repeat her prayers.

Abū Ḥanīfa states that the feet are not part of the ʿawra, because they are exposed a lot of the time, and so they are like the face. Mālik, Awzāʿī, and Shafiʿī state that all of a woman is [her] ʿawra except her face and her hands. As for the rest [of her body], she must cover it when she prays, as Ibn ʿAbbās states, concerning the verse, (and let them not display their beauty (zīna) except what [usually] appears of it), [that it refers to] the face and hands, because the Prophet (pbuh) prohibited women in a state of iḥrām from wearing gloves and the niqāb. If they were part of the ʿawra, it would not have been impermissible (ḥarām) to cover them, and [in addition, everyday] needs require showing one’s face in buying and selling, and one’s hands in giving and taking.

Some of our scholars have stated that all of a woman’s [body] is her ʿawra as it has been narrated in a ḥadīth from the Prophet (pbuh)narrated by Tirmidhī that “all of a woman’s [body] is her ʿawra”, and Tirmidhī states that the ḥadīth is authentic (ḥasan ṣaḥīḥ) but she was given a dispensation that allowed her to expose her face and hands as covering them would cause great difficulty (mashaqqa); and looking at her face is permitted when asking for her hand in marriage, because it is the centre of beauty. This is the view of Ḥārith b. Hishām who states that, “All of a woman’s body is her ʿawra, even her nails.”


So what is the position of the 4 Imams?
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  #6  
Old 05-20-2012, 09:19 PM
Yusuf Khan Yusuf Khan is offline
 
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Quote:
Br. Yusuf jazakAllaah khayr...however I'm reading some of it and I'm a bit confused. From my understanding, Malik, a'Shafi'ee, and Ahmad all said the face is awrah and should be covered...yet in the website Suhaib Webb says
wa iyyak. Sorry bro, I have no knowledge/understanding to give clarification. Just passing what I've come across.

Also for correction, it was written by Sh. Yusuf Al-Qaradawi and translated by U. Abdullah (not by Sh. Suhaib...it's just the website name).
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  #7  
Old 05-22-2012, 10:07 AM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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Sh. Ayman, any comments on the article posted by bro Yusuf?
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  #8  
Old 05-22-2012, 12:48 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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What about it?
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  #9  
Old 05-23-2012, 10:15 AM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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The article bro Yusuf posted mentioned that Imam Shafi'ee, Malik, and Abu Hanifah were of the opinion that a woman's face is NOT awra. I have read a'Shafi'ee and Malik were of the opinion they were. Can you clarify? JazakAllaah khayr.
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  #10  
Old 05-23-2012, 11:24 AM
ISLAMDEFENDER ISLAMDEFENDER is offline
 
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Abu Jafar Tahawi Hanafi said

أبيح للناس أن ينظروا إلى ما ليس بمحرَّم عليهم من النساء إلى وجوههن وأكفهن، وحرم ذلك عليهم من أزواج النبي . وهو قول أبي حنيفة وأبي يوسف ومحمد رحمهم الله تعالى
Sharah Ma`ani Al Athaar 2/392

It is mentioned in Kanz Ul Daqaiq 28:
بدن الحرة عورة إلا وجهها وكفيها؛ وفي القدم
It is mentioned in Fatawa Alamgiri Vol 1 pg 57 :
بدن الحرة عورة إلا وجهها وكفيها؛ وفي القدم
The Body of a Freed Woman is awrah except the face, hands and feet.

It is mentioned in Al Hidaya Vol 1 page 257 :
بدن الحرة عورة إلا وجهها وكفيها
The Body of a Freed Woman is awrah, except the Face and the hands.

It is mentioned in بدائع الصنائع في ترتيب الشرائع
فَلَا يَحِلُّ النَّظَرُ لِلْأَجْنَبِيِّ مِنْ الْأَجْنَبِيَّةِ الْحُرَّةِ إلَى سَائِرِ بَدَنِهَا إلَّا الْوَجْهِ وَالْكَفَّيْنِ

It is not permissible for a stranger man to look at a stranger woman except for her Face, and both of her hands.

Source: http://main.islamweb.net/newlibrary/...d=12&startno=6
.
Qadhi Ayaadh Said
The Obligation of Hijab(face veil) was specially for the Wives of the Prophet peace be upon him, and there is no dispute in that for them it was wajib to hide their face and hands.[Mentioned by Hafiz Ibne Hajar asqalani in Fath ul Bari vol 8 page 530 Maktaba tul Salafiyah and Same was the View of Ibne Battaal as mentioned by Hafiz Ibne Hajar asqalani in Fathul Bari Vol 11 Page 10 Maktaba tul Salafiyah]

Ibne Battal said
"This hadith is evidence, it is not obligatory for Muslim women to do Hijab(face veil) like it was obligatory for Wives of Prophet peace be upon him.... This hadeeth is evidence that it is not obligatory for woman to veil her face, because it is consensus of Ahlus Sunnah wal Jamah, Woman will not veil her face in Salah even some ajnabi is watching."[Fathul Bari Vol 11 Page 10 Maktaba tul Salafiyah]

Even though Hafiz Ibne Hajar went against this stance but Shaykh Nasir ud din Al Bani supported the stance of Ibne Battal in Hijab al Mir`ah al Muslimah page 29.

Mardawi Hanbalee said

الصحيح من المذهب أن الوجه ليس بعورة . وعليه الأصحاب . وحكاه القاضي إجماعا . وعنه الوجه عورة أيضا .
Correct Madhab is that face is not Awrah...Qadhi narrated Consensus. it is also narrated that face is awrah [Al Insaaf 1/452]


Imam Ibn Qudaamah Hanbalee said:“If a person deals with a woman when selling or renting, he may look at her face so he knows who she is, and may go back to her when the money is due (a guarantee of the price when the deal is finalized). It was reported that Ahmad said this was makrooh in the case of a young woman, but not in the case of an old woman, and in the case where there is fear of fitnah, or where there is no need for this business deal. But in cases where it is necessary, and there is no wrongful desire, then there is no harm in it.”[al-Mughni, 7/459; al-Sharh al-Kabeer ‘ala Matan al-Muqni’, 7/348 bi Haamish al-Mughni; al-Hidaayah ma’a Takmilat Fath al-Qadeer, 10/24].

http://www.ahlalhdeeth.com/vb/showpo...12&postcount=3
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  #11  
Old 05-26-2012, 12:10 PM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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jazakAllaahu khayr akh IslamDefender but anything from the 4 Imams? This is where my confusion is.
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  #12  
Old 05-26-2012, 01:52 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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I think you are confusing yourself by yourself without realising so.

Imam Al Shafie he clearly stated that the face and hand is not 'Awrah as related by al-Bayhaqi in his Sunan when he relayed the tafseer of the Imam of the ayah "not to show their adornments". As for others, I have no time to look and serach.

Do not busy yourself with this issue as it brings no benefit esp. to those living in the west.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad ibn Philip View Post
jazakAllaahu khayr akh IslamDefender but anything from the 4 Imams? This is where my confusion is.
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  #13  
Old 05-26-2012, 02:25 PM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
I think you are confusing yourself by yourself without realising so.

Imam Al Shafie he clearly stated that the face and hand is not 'Awrah as related by al-Bayhaqi in his Sunan when he relayed the tafseer of the Imam of the ayah "not to show their adornments". As for others, I have no time to look and serach.

Do not busy yourself with this issue as it brings no benefit esp. to those living in the west.
Sh. Ayman you often say do not busy yourself with this issue as it brings no benefit but you fail to realize many times we ask questions because others say things and ppl are misguided by views which are not the actual truth. In an effort to correct these misconceptions, people like myself seek the truth so as to clarify the matter so others are not misled only to be told not to busy ourselves with such topics.

Anyway if someone can post Imam Shafi'ee's explanation of that verse then I would greatly appreciate it.

Jazakamullaahu khayr
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  #14  
Old 05-26-2012, 02:54 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad ibn Philip View Post
Sh. Ayman you often say do not busy yourself with this issue as it brings no benefit but you fail to realize many times we ask questions because others say things and ppl are misguided by views which are not the actual truth. In an effort to correct these misconceptions, people like myself seek the truth so as to clarify the matter so others are not misled only to be told not to busy ourselves with such topics.
I do realise that most of those who ask do so because they heard such statements said by others. In this particular issue, you should not bother yourself with because there is nothing misleading or a misconception because both views (i.e. covering the face is obligatory or just preferable) are valid regardless the names of scholars who stated so.

You seek truth when a view is classified falsehood!

You busy yourself in a matter ONLY when such matter cause harm to Muslim or advocate unislamic views.

You identify a notion as a misconception when it is something that scholars deem it so.

Barak Allahu feekum
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Old 05-26-2012, 03:18 PM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
I do realise that most of those who ask do so because they heard such statements said by others. In this particular issue, you should not bother yourself with because there is nothing misleading or a misconception because both views (i.e. covering the face is obligatory or just preferable) are valid regardless the names of scholars who stated so.

You seek truth when a view is classified falsehood!

You busy yourself in a matter ONLY when such matter cause harm to Muslim or advocate unislamic views.

You identify a notion as a misconception when it is something that scholars deem it so.

Barak Allahu feekum
This is the problem. You have numerous people telling others that the other view (that niqab is not wajib) is invalid and that the overwhelming majority of scholars have said niqab is wajib. I know this is not the truth but I sought clarification so others would not be mislead and start condemning others so quickly and easily.
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Old 05-26-2012, 04:14 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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The only solution to this problem which exist today amongst ignoarnt laypeople is simply to direct them to any Islamic website fatwa or any Fiqh council. No one should argue and discuss religion with laypeople. Just show what you know and leave it there. Otherwise, you will spend all your life seraching topics that will waste your time.

Barak Allahu feek

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad ibn Philip View Post
This is the problem. You have numerous people telling others that the other view (that niqab is not wajib) is invalid and that the overwhelming majority of scholars have said niqab is wajib. I know this is not the truth but I sought clarification so others would not be mislead and start condemning others so quickly and easily.
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  #17  
Old 05-26-2012, 05:05 PM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
The only solution to this problem which exist today amongst ignoarnt laypeople is simply to direct them to any Islamic website fatwa or any Fiqh council. No one should argue and discuss religion with laypeople. Just show what you know and leave it there. Otherwise, you will spend all your life seraching topics that will waste your time.

Barak Allahu feek
Well why do you think I asked!!!!? Allaah ya barak feek
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  #18  
Old 05-27-2012, 11:54 AM
ISLAMDEFENDER ISLAMDEFENDER is offline
 
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Shaykh Ayman assalamu alikum i would like you to clarify me the stance of Imam Shafiee Rahimullah. Because You said that he said face and hands are awrah.

al-Shaafiee, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “It is good enough for both men and women to pray with their ‘awrah covered. The man’s ‘awrah is what I have already described (i.e., from the navel to the knee), and all of a woman is ‘awrah, apart from her face and hands. The top of her feet is also ‘awrah. If during prayer any part of the area between a man’s navel and knees becomes uncovered, or any part of a woman’s hair, whether it is a lot or a little, or any part of her body apart from her face and hands and wrist – and no more than that – becomes uncovered, whether they realize it or not, then both (man and woman) must repeat the prayer – unless it was uncovered by the wind, or it slipped and was immediately replaced without delay (no longer than it takes to pick up the garment and place it back immediately.) (Al-Shaafa'i, Kitaab al-Umm, Baab Kayfiyyat Libs al-Thiyaab fi’l-Salaah quoted by Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid).
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:26 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
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I did not say that! I said, he said the face and hands are not 'Awrah. Please read my post again.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ISLAMDEFENDER View Post
Shaykh Ayman assalamu alikum i would like you to clarify me the stance of Imam Shafiee Rahimullah. Because You said that he said face and hands are awrah.
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Old 05-27-2012, 12:53 PM
MohammadAbdulRahman MohammadAbdulRahman is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ISLAMDEFENDER View Post
Shaykh Ayman assalamu alikum i would like you to clarify me the stance of Imam Shafiee Rahimullah. Because You said that he said face and hands are awrah.

al-Shaafiee, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “It is good enough for both men and women to pray with their ‘awrah covered. The man’s ‘awrah is what I have already described (i.e., from the navel to the knee), and all of a woman is ‘awrah, apart from her face and hands. The top of her feet is also ‘awrah. If during prayer any part of the area between a man’s navel and knees becomes uncovered, or any part of a woman’s hair, whether it is a lot or a little, or any part of her body apart from her face and hands and wrist – and no more than that – becomes uncovered, whether they realize it or not, then both (man and woman) must repeat the prayer – unless it was uncovered by the wind, or it slipped and was immediately replaced without delay (no longer than it takes to pick up the garment and place it back immediately.) (Al-Shaafa'i, Kitaab al-Umm, Baab Kayfiyyat Libs al-Thiyaab fi’l-Salaah quoted by Shaykh Muhammad Saalih al-Munajjid).
This is talking about the prayer.
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