Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth

Go Back   Multaqa Ahl al-Hadeeth > Fiqh of Ahlulhadeeth & Comparative Fiqh
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 12-29-2011, 09:40 AM
Abdullah_Afghaani Abdullah_Afghaani is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 22
Default The Imams and their views on Taqleed...

IMAAM ABU HANEEFAH (RA)


He (Abu Haneefah) said, "It is not permissible for anyone to pass verdicts based upon my words without knowing my evidences." And when he used to issue verdicts he would say, "This is the opinion of Nu'maan Ibn Thaabit and it is better for you than following your desires and if someone presents a better opinion, then take it as it will be considered to be appropriate." [Al-Yawaaqiyat wal-Jauhar (2/96)]

Imaam ash-Shawkaanee has mentioned, "It was said to Abu Haneefah, 'What shall we do when your statement contradicts the sayings in the Book of Allaah.' He said, 'Leave my statement for the Book of Allaah.' Then he was asked, 'What if your statement contradicts the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam)?' He replied, 'Reject my statement for the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sal- Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam).' Then he was asked, 'What if your statements contradict the statements of the
Companions?' He replied, 'Abandon my statement for the statements of the companions.'" [Al-Qawl al-Mufeed of Imaam ash-Shawkaanee]

Allaamah ash-Shaamee mentions the following statement of Abu Haneefah, "If a hadeeth is found to be authentic, then it is my madhhab." [Shaamee (1/50)]

IMAAM MAALIK (RA)


Shaykh Abdul Wahhaab ash-Saha'raanee mentions the statement of Imaam Maalik. He (Maalik) said, "Everyone's statement can be rejected or taken except that of the Messenger of Allaah (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam)." [al-Yawaaqiyat Wal-Jauhar 2/96)]

Imaam Maalik also said, "I am a man, I may make mistakes sometimes and I may
be correct sometimes, so weigh my statements with the Book and the Sunnah. If they are in accordance then take them and if they contradict it then leave them." [Al- Eeqaaz]


IMAAM ASH-SHAAFI'EE (RA)


Baihaqee and Haakim said that Imaam ash-Shaafi'ee said, "An authentic hadeeth is my madhhab." In another narration Imaam ash-Shaafi'ee said, "When you find my statement contradicting the hadeeth then act upon the hadeeth and throw my statement against the wall." [Al-Yawaaqiyat wal-Jauhar (2/96)]

Imaam ash-Shaafi'ee advised Muzanee (his student), "O Ibraaheem do not do taqleed of me in everything I say, rather look into them whether it is from the religion." And he said, "No ones statement is evidence except the Messenger of Allaah's (sal-Allaahu 'alayhe wa sallam) even though the people may be great in number. Neither is analogical reasoning evidence or anything other than this (except the Book, Sunnah and the Ijmaa) and obey Allaah and His Messenger."

IMAAM AHMAD (RA)

Imaam Ahmad said, "There is no ones statement when it comes to obeying of Allaah and His Messenger." [Al-Yawaaqiyat wal-Jauhar (2/96)]

Whilst advising someone Imaam Ahmad said, "Do not do taqleed of me, nor of Maalik, al-Awzaa'ee, an-Nakhaa'ee or anyone other than them, take from where they took, from the Book and the Sunnah." [Al-Yawaaqiyat wal-Jauhar (2/96)]
  #2  
Old 12-29-2011, 04:24 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,558
Default

The above statements are addressing the Mujtahid and well versed scholars not the laypeople!
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
  #3  
Old 12-31-2011, 10:28 AM
Ahmad ibn Philip Ahmad ibn Philip is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 773
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ayman bin khaled View Post
The above statements are addressing the Mujtahid and well versed scholars not the laypeople!
I have mentioned this and get the usual, "where is the proof". Is there any explanations of their statements and evidences that those they are addressing are the mujtahid and tulaab al 3ilm?
  #4  
Old 12-31-2011, 11:19 AM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,558
Default

Those who asks you for a proof is a living evidence that Allah made them laypeople!!

The problem is that many people today do not even have intellectuality, let alone knowledge. You do not need proof to know that such statements are addressing people of knowledge.

1- They said to their students not in a public speech.

2- If a doctor says, I do not allow anyone to do the surgery the way I do without knowing how it is done, do you think he talks to the coffe boy in the end of the hall or his surgeon fellows?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ahmad ibn Philip View Post
I have mentioned this and get the usual, "where is the proof". Is there any explanations of their statements and evidences that those they are addressing are the mujtahid and tulaab al 3ilm?
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
  #5  
Old 12-31-2011, 01:45 PM
hlatif hlatif is offline
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Birimgham, alabama
Posts: 198
Default

Wa Alaikum Assalam,

Quote:
2- If a doctor says, I do not allow anyone to do the surgery the way I do without knowing how it is done, do you think he talks to the coffe boy in the end of the hall or his surgeon fellows?
As a doctor myself, I will have to disagree with you here. The doctor could be talking to anyone there. More importantly, if my patients challenged my decision and wanted to know where it came from, then I am obligated to explain to them how I came to my decision in a matter they can understand and patiently answer their questions.

I as a doctor also will not complain when my patients come to me with some strange ideas from the internet. I will patiently explain my opinion to them and why my decision is in agreement with what they brought about or in disagreement with it.

I believe that this is also how the salaf dealt with the person who is lacking knowledge or had partial knowledge. The only time they dismissed such person is when they felt that this person is playing or aiming for some sort of Fitna in his question.

wa Assalam

Hussein
  #6  
Old 12-31-2011, 01:56 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,558
Default

There is nothing to disagree with akhi!! Your answer has nothing to do what I said or even what the topic of this thread is all about!

You are talking about the right of laypeople to inquire and know the proof (which all scholars accept), while I am talking about the fact that laypeople are unqualified to weight views and rulings on their own. That is why I mentioned the example of the surgeon and the surgery.

Please try to read carefully before replying.'

Barak Allahu feek

Quote:
Originally Posted by hlatif View Post
Wa Alaikum Assalam,


As a doctor myself, I will have to disagree with you here. The doctor could be talking to anyone there. More importantly, if my patients challenged my decision and wanted to know where it came from, then I am obligated to explain to them how I came to my decision in a matter they can understand and patiently answer their questions.

I as a doctor also will not complain when my patients come to me with some strange ideas from the internet. I will patiently explain my opinion to them and why my decision is in agreement with what they brought about or in disagreement with it.

I believe that this is also how the salaf dealt with the person who is lacking knowledge or had partial knowledge. The only time they dismissed such person is when they felt that this person is playing or aiming for some sort of Fitna in his question.

wa Assalam

Hussein
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
  #7  
Old 12-31-2011, 02:44 PM
Naumaan Naumaan is offline
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 115
Default

Assalamu'alaykum,

May Allah reward you with good.

Here is a narration of Muad Ibn Jabal just wanted to know your thoughts on it.

Sayyidna Mu’aad (May Allah be pleased with him) said: How would you be when you see three things, when the world is breaking your necks and when an Alim makes a mistake, when a hypocrite argues you with the Quran. People remained silent. Then Muad bin Jabal said; Hear about the neck breaking world who so ever’s heart is blessed so he would be on Hidayah and whosoever is not blessed then the world will not benefit him. As far as the mistake of Alim (then hear) even if he is going on the straight path the do not do TAQLEED of him and if he gets into a fitnah the do not be disappointed because a Mu’min gets into fitnah but repents in the end.

The Narration is recorded in Al Jamee of Imam Ibn Abdil Barr (134/2 and 111/2) and Imam Ibn Hazam's Al-Ahkaam (234/2) and many other places.

Ibn Al Qayyim says in A’alamal Mawqieen (239/2) that this is Saheeh.

(Please note translation is only indicative of the saying of the companion, if you need the arabic text then I can provide that inshaAllah)

Muad may Allah be pleased with him catagorically states that do not follow the mistake of a scholar.

If a student of knowledge finds a mistake with his scholar or his madhab, what should he do?

Finally these statement are general and we need proof to make them specific isn't it?

Jazak Allahu Khairan

Wasalaam
  #8  
Old 12-31-2011, 03:02 PM
Ayman bin khaled Ayman bin khaled is offline
Multaqa Fiqh Q&A
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,558
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Naumaan View Post
If a student of knowledge finds a mistake with his scholar or his madhab, what should he do?
If the student of knowledge is qualified and acuqired the needed instruments (i.e. Arabic, Usool and etc) then he should follow his findings. However, just so you know that different views do not necessarily mean some of them are wrong or even mistakes. This is Fiqh and level of understanding and perceptions differ depending on many factors. 99.9% of Fiqh is based on valid differences. Now, when I say student of knowledge with acquired means I refer to Mujtahid Juz'i not someone who just read or studied couple of books. This level of scholarship rqeuire many extensive years of study.

Quote:
Finally these statement are general and we need proof to make them specific isn't it?
No. We do not need a proof to make it specific. It is common sense and no scholar ever said laypeople is rqeuired to do Ijtihad on his own.
__________________
Seeking Knowledge & Learning Fiqh Is Only Praised When It Is For The Purpose Of Acting Upon It, Not For The Sake Of Discussions & Arguments

Why Posts Are Deleted?
[Subscribe] Oasis.of.Serenity

If I do not greet back in writing then know I do it verbally because sometimes I am too busy and just want to answer the question.
  #9  
Old 12-31-2011, 04:13 PM
Abdul-Qayyum Abdul-Qayyum is offline
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 323
Default

What really confounds me is how anyone thinks these statements were aimed at ordinary people.

Ordinary people would not have a copy of anything by Ibn Abdil Barr or Sahih al Bukhari or Sahih Muslim or Sahih anything in order to check hadiths themselves in the first place, this only was possible with the distribution and printing of these books on a mass scale...

when books like Al Jamee by Ibn 'Abdil Barr were only available if narrated by Shuyookh to Tulaab or through private commission of a copy (assuming that was even done), how on earth would any layman have a copy to know what Muadh (radiallahu anhu) said in the first place?
  #10  
Old 12-31-2011, 05:29 PM
Abu emaan Abu emaan is offline
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 395
Default

For those who reject taqleed can you explain this hadeeth:


من أفتي بفتيا غير ثبت فإنما إثمه على من أفتاه

Rasool (SAW) said: "Whoever is given a fatwa that has no basis, then his sin will be upon the one who issued that fatwa." (Hasan)

The book of Sunnah, Ibn Maja.
__________________

المرأة المسلمة تهز المهد بيمينها و تزلزل عروش الكفر بشمالها
The muslimah rocks the cradle with her right hand and shakes the thrones of kufr with her left.

mogreen88.wordpress.com
abubakrassiddeeq.wordpress.com
arbaeen.wordpress.com
ummahatulmumineen.wordpress.com
imambukhaari.wordpress.com
rasoolulallah.wordpress.com
tafseerjuzzamma.wordpress.com
matnabishujaa.wordpress.com
http://marriageislam.wordpress.com/
http://tafseersurahalfatiha.wordpress.com/
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:40 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.